Reverend Jim Comments
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You posted the article and I'm just allowing readers to see the other side of the story. My issue with attributing Christmas and Easter to paganism is the divisiveness and 'bad publicity' it portrays to unbelievers. That's one of the main problems with Christianity today. Everybody likes to believe they have have the truth and then attribute the beliefs of others they disagree with to the evil one. When unbelievers see one group of Christians celebrate the resurrection or the birth of Christ, and then they see others demonize them for it does absolutely nothing for the cause of Christ. There's no hard evidence that Eastre was ever a pagan goddess. There's no documented evidence of shrines, altars, or the worship of Eastre, and celebrating Christ birth in no way implies a return to paganism. The sinful traditions associated with Saturnalia were discarded. Some of the un-sinful ones were carried over in 4C AD and that doesn't turn Christmas into paganism. We simply celebrate the birth of Christ that's a matter of 'conscience.'
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
All we read and know about end-time prophecy must be in accord, and there must be scriptural evidence and support that harmonizes with them. If Rome, Europe, or the USA are found in prophecy there must be supporting scriptures to validate it, but there isn't. Not one verse of prophecy supports such a connection. The descendents of Japeth likely populated Europe and I don't see an end-time connection, progenitive or not, to support any Western country anywhere. I haven't read "The United States and Britain in Bible Prophecy," but it likely refers to Abraham and Joseph's descendants or maybe about how "Israel" refers to the United States or Britain. Sorry, but I don't accept that teaching. The southern kingdom of "Judah" may at time refer to Israel today, and Israel typically implies the nations and descendents of Israel or even Christians, and that in no way implies the EU or USA. Some people teach that "Gomer" is Germany and Meshech is Moscow and Tubal is Tobolsk. Every nation mentioned in Ez. 38-39 is found in Turkey today and maybe some of the 'stan' countries to the north and east. Psalm 83's nations are all Islamic. You'd be hard pressed to show me otherwise.
There are so many things we do associated with paganism that if we avoided them all we may just as well not live. In Acts 21 Paul told Jewish converts not to participate in certain Jewish traditions. Those converts accused Paul of calling for an apostasy/abandonment of them. Paul wasn't telling them to abandon ALL the Jewish traditions and festivities but only the ones of blood sacrifice etc. that would be against the new covenant. Would not some of those Jewish/Judaic customs be pagan in origin or against Christianity?
Christmas is a time to spend with family and friends. Some celebrate it without associating it with Christ birth. NOBODY I know connects it with Satan, and nobody I know celebrates it with pagan gods. The definition of pagan has a multitude of meanings. That's why I say you can attribute just about anything to paganism.
If you feel it's a sin to celebrate Christmas, then don't. I feel it's not a sin as we in my church honor Jesus Christ and no one else.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Another example is if you feel convicted eating lobster or pork then it is a sin for you, but may not be for me.
Hi Skip, I want you to know I appreciate the UCG very much. You post my replies where others typically back out, especially on trinity debates. Like you, I'm non-trinitarian and people on blogs or other sites usually delete my replies.
I think as long as we honor the Sabbath, whether Saturday or Sunday, that's what counts, and Colossians 2:16 seems supports that.
Celebrating Christmas is a tradition and season I and many others enjoy. We know it's likely Christ wasn't born in December, but to me that doesn't matter. I celebrate it because Christ WAS born regardless of when. When my grand children's birthdays fall on a weekday we celebrate it on the weekends. Neither do we celebrate Christmas the way it was by the Saturnalia cults. Those things are long gone. We can attribute pagan origins to just about anything. Eating certain foods, dressing certain ways, reading certain types of books, dancing, festivals, movies, etc. There's no end to it. When the people at my church celebrate Christmas, we are not looking at the past. I will forever celebrate Christmas. If you feel it's a sin for you to celebrate it, don't. I feel it's not a sin for me to celebrate it.
Your Sabbath is Saturday, mine is Sunday and that's fine. The sabbath was not established at creation. The word is first found in Exodus. The word 'rest' in Genesis simply means to keep as a day of rest. Two examples is in Leviticus where the word 'rest' is used WITH the word 'Sabbath'. 7673 & 7676.
....shall ye celebrate H7673 your sabbath. H7676
then shall the land H776 keep a sabbath H7676 unto the LORD.
William Baldwin, where you likely got your information from, distinguishes the two Sabbaths. He said in his last paragrah, "This is all with respect to the "2nd use" of the Sabbath. That is with the Sabbath as it signifies a covenant between God and his people. With regard to the 1st use, the moral, the Sabbath is given to us to allow us to rest our bodies physically. So please feel free to take a nap, but not during your exercise of the 2nd use (i.e. in church). "
God established a day of rest. It doesn't matter what day we celebrate the Sabbath. But to associate Sabbath keeping with murder etc. is very inappropriate.
Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.
Paul required Christian Jews to stop rituals that violated the 'new covenant. They were allowed to continue with the other un-Christian 'pagan' traditions of Judaism.
The Sabbath has been a controversy forever. It's more of a Judaic custom than a NT teaching. New Testament believers are not under the Old Testament Law (Romans 6:14; Galatians 3:24-25; 2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13; Hebrews 7:12). Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week, and Pentecost likely occurred on Sunday. It has no bearing on a person's salvation. As long as we all honor a day of rest we are doing the right thing. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them... 1 Cor. 16:1-2 Now about the collection for God's people...On the FIRST day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income... Saturday doesn't need to be the Sabbath any more than we need to adhere to any other part of Judaic law like food restrictions etc. The same with Christmas. Celebrating it is not a return to paganism. What I dislike about Christianity is that everyone complains about how and what everyone else is doing.