Ancient (81) COG participant (1959 approx to 1974), also GTA's & Ron Dart's groups 1978-1990 approx. Thought was getting into a forum. Apparently not so. Good take on "predestination" by Mr McNeely. I've observed for years that The Book is a treatise on anarchy, that the only legitimate governing unit is the family unit -- hopefully a loving Mom and Dad (and, of course, children -- who have limited say in the matter until later when, in due time, they might inherit governorship of aging Mom's and Dad's, etc etc etc). Rulership in love, not force of arms. Sam