Is God Just?

Friday, January 11, 2013 (All day)

How can we understand why God allows suffering?

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[Gary Petty] Yesterday we did a Beyond Today program where we talked about a problem that people have with the Bible - something that bothers a lot of people. And that is why would God kill people in the Old Testament?

When you look at Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho where God literally killed hundreds or even thousands of people, and yet we see in the Scripture where it says God is love. We look at the central message brought by Jesus Christ. Love is part of that message.

So why would a loving God kill people? People wrestle with this all the time.

Well, the answer lies in understanding the relationship between good and evil. God allows a certain amount of evil because He gives people free choice. But there's a point where evil grows and grows.

You know, there's an old saying that for evil to thrive, all that has to happen is for good men to do nothing. Just think about that for a minute. For evil to thrive all God has to do is nothing. There reaches a point where evil will grow to a point where God says it is enough, and He steps in to stop it - including if He has to actually slay the evil people.

You see, God in His goodness in the end, and this is a very positive point, God in His goodness in the end is going to win. Evil is going to lose.

That's BT Daily . Join us next time.

12 comments
Submitted on Jan 14, 2013, 11:50 am

meqayhotch0310

meqayhotch0310's picture

why did God give His people a freedom to choose.



Submitted on Jan 15, 2013, 7:45 am

KARS

KARS's picture

Because meqayhotch0310,
If He didn't we would end up like the angels that fall and became His enemies. They made the mistake and we have no idea if they will ever be able to return before the presense of God the Father.

We humans have been given the gift of daily repentance through the love of God our Father when He offered His Only Begotten Son Jesus Chirst to die for us (all of us)because of our sins.
Therefore we are not to take for granted our callings from God the Father. We must strive to becoming like little children so we can change ourselves within and become Christ like in deed, word, and thought.
It is hard work and the gift of repentance and His Holy Spirit given after baptism will help us to develope Godly character.



Submitted on Jan 15, 2013, 2:10 pm

Corey Gennaro

Corey Gennaro's picture

I always thought of that question. My dad always told me that he rather have me choose to do something then him just forcing me to do it. Its more fulfilling for my dad when I choose to do the right thing. The same could be true for God.



Submitted on Jan 16, 2013, 6:16 am

linda effenberger

linda effenberger's picture

God did not make mankind to be a robot or a puppet. He wants mankind to realize for themselves what is better: good or evil? Look what mankind has done to the earth with the help of the Adversary. Look at the pollution and greed that is destroying this planet. The way of get has made this world what it is today. Children are raped in schools and in some countries sold to prostitution, women are ravished in busses or kidnapped and used as sex slaves for years, and firemen are shot and killed on duty because someone likes to kill. Just add to the list by thinking of all the injustices in this world that has taken place.

One day all mankind will learn the "give" way of life and there will be peace. There will be no more murders, no more rapes and no more wars. There will be no more injustices and everyone will be fairly and justly treated, living under God's laws.

Yes, God is just. Those that like doing evil and do not want to change will be removed from the picture. God gives everybody the chance to choose and to act. But, there comes a time when enough is enough, and He will step in and correct the situation. May Jesus Christ come soon to save mankind from total destruction!



Submitted on Jan 18, 2013, 3:53 am

londonbrandon

londonbrandon's picture

Some 21,000 children die every day around the world.

That is equivalent to:

1 child dying every 4 seconds.

Your argument is that they have free choice and are habitually choosing to starve?



Submitted on Jan 21, 2013, 11:32 pm

Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

Hello LondonBrandon,

When corrupt government officials habitually steal money from their people, yes--they are choosing to enrich themselves and let their people starve (google Thomas Bergersen’s stirring 2011 song “Starvation,” Illusions album). Shockingly, perhaps as many as 140,000 children (1 out of every 54 children who die yearly) die because of corruption (Hanf et. al., 1999, "Corruption Kills: Estimating the Global Impact of Corruption on Children Deaths").

These deaths are an indictment against—not God, but the people who perpetrated these crimes. This is Satan’s world, not God’s. Satan is “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4, ESV 2011). “He was a murderer from the beginning” (Jn 8:44b ESV), and he inspires people “to do what he wants” (Jn 8:44a, ERV 2008). By contrast, “Righteousness and justice are the foundation of [God’s] throne” (Ps 97:2, NLT 2010). We await His “kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms” (Dan 2:44 NLT)—including a future brutish system that will have “devoured and crushed its victims” (Dan 7:7 NLT) which will include trafficked persons (Revelation 18:13). God will answer the children’s cries.

(continued)



Submitted on Jan 21, 2013, 11:37 pm

Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

We are the control group of a scientific experiment Adam and Eve requested when they rejected God (Gn. 3:5). Humanity is experiencing the consequences of refusing to obey God’s laws (which, for instance, would prohibit a company from polluting the environment with a known carcinogen that places women at risk of miscarriage). Innocent people suffer. Innocent people die. Ultimately, humanity will literally be on the verge of self-annihilation (Mt. 24:22; Mk. 13:20).

That is when Christ will return, create a literal kingdom here on earth (Rv. 5:10), mete out justice worldwide (Ps 96:13; 98:9; Is. 2:4; 51:4-5; Acts 17:31), and set up an experimental group of 1,000 years of living life his way so that when the 108 billion plus people who have ever lived (Haub 2011) are resurrected (Rev 20:5), they will be able to compare the history of both and decide for themselves which way is best.

God has strong words concerning the sacrifice of children on the altar of false gods, whether literally (to idols, as in the past) or figuratively (selfish greed as idolatry: Ep. 5:5; Col 3:5, as today): "'they have filled this place with the blood of innocent children'" (Jer 19:4 NLT).

(continued)



Submitted on Jan 21, 2013, 11:38 pm

Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

God cares deeply for children: "'Was your [betrayal] not enough? Must you also slaughter My children...? In all your years of...detestable sin, you have not once remembered the days long ago when you [were a helpless child]… What a sick heart you have'" (Ezk 16:21-22, 30a NLT). It particularly galls God when someone like Joseph Kony (of the so-called Lord’s Resistance Army) – charged by the International Criminal Court of unspeakably heinous crimes against precious children – shamelessly attends religious services without repentance: “On the very day that they sacrificed their children…they boldly came into My Temple to worship! They came in and defiled My house’” (Ezk 23:39 NLT).

In regards to a rebel commander forcing child soldiers to murder civilians, as in Sierra Leone: “better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin’” (Luke 17:2b, ISV 2010).

Today’s death of Kony’s bodyguard, Brigadier Binani, is just punishment for the forced sexual slavery of children among the 12,000 abducted (UNICEF): “the kidnapper must die. Purge that evil from among you” (Dt. 24:7, MSG 2002).

(continued)



Submitted on Jan 21, 2013, 11:40 pm

Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

"'How dare you crush My people, grinding the faces of the poor into the dust[!]’ demands the Lord" (Is. 3:15a NLT).

No one will escape God’s judgment seat. God will call to account every person (whether rebel fighter or pedophile priest who blasphemes God’s name by claiming to represent Him) responsible for the unconscionable atrocities perpetrated on innocent children (placing some at risk of suicide): “Her very own leaders are rapacious lions…prowling for a fresh kill…Her priests desecrate the Sanctuary…Yet GOD remains righteous in her midst, untouched by the evil…meting out justice…strong as ever. But evil men… without conscience and without shame, persist in evil…Your day…is coming…I'll bring all…to the courtroom…My zeal is a fire that will purge and purify the earth” (Zep 3:3-8 MSG)—“God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil” (Ecc 12:4 ESV).

1. Did a Good God Create an Evil World? http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/did-good-god-create-evil-world/
2. Is Africa Dying Before Our Eyes? http://www.ucg.org/news-and-prophecy/africa-dying-our-eyes/
3. Why Does God Allow Suffering: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/why-does-god-allow-suffering/



Submitted on Jan 26, 2013, 2:05 am

londonbrandon

londonbrandon's picture

That was a lot to consider, Ivan.

God designed a scenario where the two most naive humans ever to exist would be pit agains the universes's most prolific manipulator?

What are the stats on disease, natural disasters, drought, famine, etc. (?) (rhetorical)

How would an Egyptian kid during the plagues contemplate this whole topic?

What ultimately, do you propose for the Fate of Kony, -- as opposed to some 11 year old who coveted a candy bar one day? They both sinned... but it's hardly relevant with respect to infinity and eternity... right?

You know, in the mid 1800's, President Polk coveted the richest land in the world -- and thousands of murders subsequently, got it. (California)

But THAT was a 'blessing' .... right??

I appreciate the discussion. I've studied the book of Job a lot. I have children. More children would not replace them. Ever.

I need better answers.



Submitted on Mar 3, 2013, 10:38 am

Norbert Z

Norbert Z's picture

londonbrandon,

How do people and how should people in general (whether past or present) regard their own lives?

Ecc 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Job makes for a relevant scenerio, when he lost his entire family. He was of the opinion “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

He didn't sin with his lips however God pointed out his problem with some questions:

“Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him?
He who rebukes God, let him answer it.” and “Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified?"

I've met a few well meaning people of high moral standards that take exception towards the way God runs the universe. In my view I would say idolatry gets in their way, where they place an incorrect value on themself, their family and mankind in general.

Some other relevant scriptures would be Mt 10:34-38 and Luke 13:1-5.



Submitted on Apr 27, 2013, 9:04 pm

Tholp1

Tholp1's picture

Hi Londonbrandon. God sees things that man does not. When Adam and Eve sinned, he closed them off from the garden, because he saw where the road would lead to and that was DEATH. We are recording the history without God and his law, to this day. So guess what we see as you stated in your post, DEATH every four seconds.

Long ago, God gave us commandments that would govern over us and show us how to eliminate all of the catastrophes that we accuse God of "doing nothing about". He'd even fight our battles for us. Everything you mentioned in your post is a result of disobedience to God's laws. The violence, the rapes, the diseases. DEATH. Jesus Christ is going to correct all of that during his reign, but lessons need to be learned. Most people want God to usher in that peace right now, just like you do. But we, have to be patient and wait. If you keep the Holy Days of God, you would know the plan.



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