Who Really Killed Jesus?

This question has been fervently debated for centuries. But why should it matter and what does it have to do with you?

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You stand at the foot of the stake where Jesus of Nazareth hangs, nails driven through His hands and feet, a crown of thorns shoved upon His head. Roman soldiers gamble at the base of the stake. Suddenly, one of the legionaries picks up a spear and thrusts it into Jesus' side.

Who is responsible for the murder of Jesus? For many centuries some Christians condemned Jews as the murders of Jesus. This view spawned anti-Semitism and persecution by Christians. Should the blame be placed on the Roman soldiers? Was the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, an innocent man who was forced to condemn Jesus to death? Who should be put on trial for the murder of the greatest man to walk this earth? On Beyond Today we're going to answer the question, "Who Really Killed Christ?"

Two thousand years ago Jewish leaders dragged Jesus before the Roman governor Pontius Pilate accusing Jesus of sedition. Pilate's wife had a troubling dream about the Jewish teacher and begged her husband to spare Him. The governor did have a way out of condemning Jesus—it was the Jewish Passover season and Roman custom dictated that mercy be exhibited at the Passover by releasing a prisoner. Pilate offered the crowd gathered for the event a choice of Barabbas, a hardened criminal, or Jesus, the greatest man to ever walk the earth. The crowd chose Barabbas.

In the Gospel of Matthew we are told how, "Pilate said to them, 'What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?' They all said to him, 'Let Him be crucified.'" The governor asked the crowd, "What evil has He done?" The crowd answered by chanting, "Let Him be crucified."

Matthew then writes, "When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, 'I am innocent of the blood of this Just person. You see to it.' And all the people answered and said, 'His blood be on us and our children'" (Matthew 27:19-26). Pilate gave in and Jesus was led away to be beaten, tortured and crucified.

This passage has been used for centuries to claim that the Jewish people and their children throughout history are directly responsible for the death of Jesus. This belief spawned terrible crimes of anti-Semitism by Christians.

Well, who really killed Jesus? Should Jews be held responsible throughout their generations? Does the responsibility rest upon the Roman soldiers who beat Him and actually crucified Him? Should Pilate take the blame?

We'll come back to Jesus' death and reveal who really killed Jesus. But, to fully understand the answer, we have to look at events that happened the night before Jesus was killed, when He ate a Passover meal with His disciples.

Now the Jewish Passover is traced back to the time of Moses when God led the Israelites out of Egyptian slavery. Moses told pharaoh that God wanted him to let the Israelites go free. When pharaoh refused, God brought nine terrible plagues on the people and the land of Egypt. When again pharaoh refused, God said that He would kill all the firstborn.

Now the Israelites were told to smear the blood of a lamb on the doorposts of their houses so that the Lord would pass over them and they would be spared. Generations of Israelites celebrate that night, when their ancestors listened to the horrible, terrible cries of Egyptians mourning their dead, and the Lord passed over their houses, by observing the Passover. 

Now, let's move forward to the time of Jesus, which was more than 1400 years after that first Passover. On the tenth day of the first month of the Jewish calendar, we find Jewish families selecting lambs to be sacrificed four days later. On the fourteenth day of the month, they killed the lambs and ate a special meal of lamb, herbs and unleavened bread to commemorate God's mercy shown to their ancestors.

It was on the fourteenth day of the first month that Jesus was crucified. The night before His death, He ate a Passover meal with His leading disciples. Matthew tells us, "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said/saying, 'Take, eat, this is my body.' Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them saying, 'Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin" (Matthew 26:26-28).   

To understand who killed Jesus, we must first understand something very important about His mission in God's plan of salvation.

There are a number of important issues in what Jesus told His disciples on that Passover eve in what we just read. When we look carefully at these verses in Matthew, we see that Jesus told His disciples that they must eat bread and drink wine as symbols of His body and blood. He carefully explained that what He was doing was the beginning of a new covenant; and what He was doing involved God's forgiveness of sins.

What did Jesus mean when He said that they must eat bread and drink wine as symbols of His body and His blood? How were these symbols involved in the forgiveness of sins? And why did He choose a Passover meal to give them these instructions?

Well the answers are found in ancient prophecies of the Old Testament. The prophets told of a coming Messiah, or Christ, who would establish God's Kingdom on the earth. Now there are also other prophecies about a great Servant of God who would suffer for the nations.

One prophecy that tells of this "suffering Servant" is found in Isaiah 52-53. In this prophecy, the Servant of God is beaten and "His visage marred more than any man." He is "wounded for our transgressions," "bruised for our iniquities," and made an "offering for sin." In his death He "bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors " (Isaiah 52:13-15 and Isaiah 53:1-12).

Now think about it. If the Messiah is supposed to conquer the nations and rule from Jerusalem, who is this suffering Servant foretold by Isaiah? How does He fit into God's plan of salvation? The key to understanding the identity of this suffering Servant is found in what Jesus did at the Passover meal and His suffering throughout that night and the next day.

So when we go back to the Passover night, where Jesus tells His disciples that they must eat His body and drink His blood, we need to remember that Jesus' disciples already believed that He was the prophesied Messiah. They fully expected Him to overthrow Rome and establish God's Kingdom from Jerusalem.

Can you imagine their disbelief and confusion when Jesus was allowed, and He allowed Himself, to be taken by the Romans? Can you imagine their despair when they watched Jesus die? Can you imagine their astonishment when He was resurrected from the dead and appeared to them three days and three nights later?

On one occasion after His resurrection Jesus appeared to His disciples. Now we pick up the story in Luke 24: "Then He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about Me"—about Christ—"in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.' Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them,"—Now listen to this—"'Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and remission of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:44-47).

Jesus was telling His disciples that not only was He the prophesied Messiah, who would eventually establish God's Kingdom on the earth, but He was the suffering Servant who would bring repentance and forgiveness of sins. Jesus came the first time to fulfill God's plan to supply a Passover for human sin. He will return the second time to establish God's Kingdom on the earth.

Now we still haven't answered who really killed Jesus? We still a have few pieces of the puzzle to fit together. Before we explore the final pieces of the puzzle, and reveal the identity of the person who killed Jesus, let me tell you about Jesus Christ—the real story.

Now if you think you know everything about Jesus Christ, you need to read Jesus Christ: The Real Story in order to separate fact from myth. This free, detailed study guide explains how Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament; how He is more than just a good man; His basic teachings; there's even a chapter on "Who Killed Jesus? "

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Go to BeyondToday.tv and look for the "Kingdom of God Bible Seminars " link to find a seminar near you and register to attend. Now each seminar covers new material, so even if you've attended in the past, you don't want to miss an upcoming seminar.

Who is really responsible for the murder of Jesus Christ?

Before we discover the identity of the murderer of Jesus, let's review what we discussed earlier about some of the events that took place during the evening before Jesus' crucifixion. On that evening, Jesus ate a Passover meal with His disciples.

The Passover is an important annual event from the Old Testament. It commemorates the time when God killed the firstborn of Egypt, but saved the firstborn of Israel. At the first Passover, the Israelites had been instructed to smear some lamb's blood on their doorposts and the Lord passed over their families.

Matthew tells us about what happened during a Passover meal with Jesus and His disciples almost 1400 years later, "As they were eating, Jesus took bread and broke it, and give it to the disciples and said, 'Take, eat, this is my body.' Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them saying, 'Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin" (Matthew 26:26-28).

We also saw how, after His resurrection, Jesus taught His disciples that not only was He the prophesied Messiah who would establish God's Kingdom on earth, but that He was the "suffering Servant" who would be wounded for our transgressions and be made an offering for sin.

After Jesus was resurrected, His followers continued to observe the Passover, but with a new understanding. For the earliest Christians, the Passover was no longer just a celebration of how God saved ancient Israel from slavery and how the Lord passed over their firstborn.

The apostle Paul writes about this new understanding over 20 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, when he writes to the church in the Greek city of Corinth. Now listen to this: "For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians 5:7). For the earliest Christians, Jesus was celebrated as the Passover Lamb. The Passover was about a person.

To understand the need you and I have—and I, the need... I really stress that—that you and I have for Jesus as our Passover, we must all face our own corrupted human nature and the fact that each of us is condemned to death by the law of God. Sin, rebellion against God, is at the core of many of our thoughts and actions.

God doesn't simply accept us the way we are. To have a relationship with God we must repent of the way we are and the consequences of our sins. Then, you, I, must accept our need for a Passover.

Well at this point you may be saying, "But basically I'm a good person." But according to what God tells us in the Bible, none of us, none of us are good enough to earn God's favor. Only by accepting the smeared blood of Jesus, the Son of God who committed no evil, as the substitute for the penalty you deserve, I deserve, can we be passed over instead of suffering the death penalty required by the law of God.

Remember something. The Israelites who celebrated the first Passover smeared the blood of a lamb on their door posts and ate the lamb to commemorate the mercy and power of God who freed them from slavery and death. They had no way to free themselves or save themselves. They couldn't get out of slavery. They couldn't get out of their own death.

Christians are to celebrate the Passover by partaking of the symbols of Christ's body and blood. Just like the ancient Israelites, you and I have no way to save ourselves from the slavery of sin or eternal death, unless it is through the blood of the Lamb of God. I mean, if you think you can save yourself then tell me something: how can you die and then resurrect yourself?

Let's return to 1 Corinthians where Paul writes, "For often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes" (1 Corinthians 11:26). Once a year, on the anniversary of the Passover that Jesus kept with His disciples, Christians should gather to proclaim the Lord's death. It is a profound experience to commemorate the sacrifice of Jesus as the Passover in the manner and on the same night that He did with His disciples so many centuries ago.

Which brings us back to our original question, who really killed Jesus? Who should be put on trial? You know Pilate wasn't the good guy of this story. All he was concerned with was politics and maintaining Roman rule. The Roman soldiers were pagans who could not have cared less about a Jewish Messiah. The Jewish leaders thought they were serving God, doing His will. Even many of Jesus' own disciples denied Him that night during His greatest time of need.

So let's transport ourselves back to the scene at the feet of where Jesus has been crucified. The Roman soldier who has just thrust the spear into the side of Jesus slowly turns towards you. You now have an opportunity to look into the face of the murderer of the Son of God. He turns. He takes his helmet off, and you find yourself staring into your own reflection.

My purpose in making this statement is not just an attempt at theatrics. Here's the point, Christianity would be a fake religion unless Jesus, the Son of God, came from heaven to live as a man, died for the sins of all humanity, and was resurrected three days and three nights later. To become a true follower of Jesus Christ and receive eternal life, you and I must accept something very important. We must accept that His death was a substitute for what we deserve. This is the foundational truth of what it is to be a Christian. Once you accept that you deserve death, and God sacrificed a Passover for you, then you can begin to respond to God.

Pontius Pilate, the Jewish leaders, the Roman soldiers who drove the spikes into His hands and feet, you, I, we are all guilty of the blood of the Son of God.

Less than two months after Jesus was crucified and resurrected, Peter was speaking to a large crowd in Jerusalem. The people were shocked when Peter told them that God had "glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up in the presence of Pilate..." Peter then told them that they had "killed the Prince of life..." (Acts 3:13-14).

In his oration, Peter used Old Testament scriptures to show that Jesus was prophesied to suffer and be resurrected. He told those present, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom the heavens must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:19-21).

Many of those listening to Peter had heard Jesus teach. They had seen His miracles. They had been disappointed when He was crucified. Through the teachings of Peter, John and others many people turned to God and accepted Jesus as the Messiah.

The Passover isn't just an Old Testament observance. It is a profound annual observance for Christians who accept Jesus as the Passover Lamb. Observing the New Testament Passover links God's deliverance of ancient Israel together with our deliverance from sin.

The New Testament Passover no longer involves killing a lamb and smearing the blood on a doorpost, but recognizing Jesus Christ as the ultimate Passover Lamb.

Observing the New Testament Passover on the night Jesus instituted taking bread and wine as symbols of His body and blood takes us back to that dark night when the light of the world was about to shine on all humanity.

The New Testament Passover ties together the blood of the lamb that signaled the Lord to pass over the firstborn of ancient Israel, and the blood of the Lamb that offers eternal life to all who turn to God.

Now, in the next segment we'll talk about why we observe the New Testament Passover and why this annual observance is important for all Christians.

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Well we're joined by fellow Beyond Today co-hosts; Steve Myers, Darris McNeely. Why is the annual observance of the Passover—and we all observe the Passover annually, on the night that Jesus did—why is that so often ignored in the Christian world?

[Steve] I think part of the reason it's ignored is because it doesn't sound Christian.

[Gary] People think it's Jewish.

[Steve] Yeah, so many Christians assume that the Lord's Supper is something that we should keep and get it confused with what the New Testament actually says about the Passover. And there's such an observance of the Passover and normally you come to that time of the year and you see observances on the television. They usually cover the Jewish Passover and somehow it just gets all confused together I think. And people assume it's not Christian when in actuality, it is a Christian celebration.

[Gary] Well, how would you do, how should we keep the Passover then, this once a year observance? How should we do that?

[Steve] Well Paul gave some very specific instructions. In the book of 1 Corinthians, you quoted a little bit of it before, but sometimes we forget what that letter was written for, and one of the reasons was he was correcting them in proper observance in one case of the Passover, the Passover itself, because they were abusing it. They didn't understand it. They missed the point so many times. They thought well maybe some meal had a connection to it.

Confused things about the Lord's Supper when in actuality he points them to the fact that here in 1 Corinthians 11:23 he says, I received from the Lord. So where did his instructions come from? It came from the Lord Himself and what was it? He said that on the night, the same night in fact is the word he uses, the same night in which He was betrayed He took bread and then later He talks about the wine. So on that very same night is when the Passover is observed, the New Testament Passover, with that new symbolism that Jesus Christ Himself gave it.

[Gary]...Which He is the Passover.

[Steve] And He is that Passover.

[Darris] You asked how should a Christian do it? Very simply, basically, according to the manner in which Jesus did it. You read that scripture from 1 Corinthians 11 Steve, but it is a very simple ceremony yet very powerful and profound.

To sit down in a very quiet manner with fellow believers in a way to take the symbols of the bread and the wine, that symbolize the perfect body of Jesus Christ and the wine which is a symbol of the shed blood of Christ for our sins, and to take those in remembrance of Christ and to understand the deep significance of that sacrifice, and then to sing a hymn to close the evening. It's a very dignified, very solemn, very special occasion but yet profound and beautiful in its implications.

[Gary] Doing this ceremony on the night that Jesus did it, commemorating that event every year, how has that shaped your Christianity?

[Steve] In every way. I think in every way. When we understand the significance of the death of Christ and that very fact that you brought out; that I caused His death, I am a sinner and I need the sacrifice of Christ to cover that sin. And that reminder comes back and that, and then by extension that rededication in my life. That He is my Savior. I am dedicated to Him and I want to live by His example. And that reminder year after year refocuses me so that I need to have that Savior. Then I need to go forth and I need to do His will and I need to be that example and let Him live His life through me. So, it affects everything.

[Darris] I think Gary, that for me, it's an opportunity every year to just to go through a very deep self-examination. And go through the symbols, take those and then walk out of that room with a sense of hope that I've got a clean slate and I can start over again and hopefully make it a better year—my relationship with God and my other relationships with other people. It's that hope of a new slate that really has shaped by Christianity and my walk with God.

[Gary] Keeping that night in the way that Jesus did is one of the most profound experiences that you can go through and tying your life directly into that of our Savior—the One who is our Passover. Because all the symbols, all the New Testament, point to the Passover as a person and that person is Jesus Christ.

Now remember our free offers today and order your copy of our booklet, Jesus Christ: The Real Story . And, when you call we'll also send you a free subscription to The Good News magazine. If you can't call right now, write this down: 1-888-886-8632. That's 1-888-886-8632. Or, you can read The Good News online at BeyondToday.tv.

We also want to remind you that Beyond Today and the United Church of God will be conducting Kingdom of God Seminars across the United States, Canada and around the globe. If you would like to know more about the return of Jesus Christ to set up His Kingdom or God's Kingdom, His Father's Kingdom here on this earth then you need to attend one of these free seminars.

Go to BeyondToday.tv and look for the "Kingdom of God Bible Seminars" link to find a seminar near you and register to attend. Each seminar covers new material, so even if you've attended in the past, you don't want to miss this upcoming event.

The Passover is not just an Old Testament observance. It is a celebration of the foundational event of Christianity—the first coming of the Messiah as the suffering Servant to suffer and die for the sins of humanity. I urge all of you to study what the Gospels teach about that Passover that Jesus kept with His disciples and to follow His example.

Join us next week on Beyond Today as we continue to discover the gospel of the Kingdom. We also to invite you to join us in continually praying, "Thy Kingdom come." For Beyond Today, I'm Gary Petty. Thanks for watching.


David L. Nunn

David L. Nunn's picture

Thanks BT for another great program.




Clive Germany

Clive Germany's picture

ONCE AGAIN ANOTHER BRILLIANT PROGRAM INSPIRED BY OUR LORD'S SPIRIT. THANK YOU TEAM FOR ALL THE WORK YOU DO SPREADING THE COMING OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH AROUND THE WORLD TO UNITE US ALL NO MATTER WHERE WE ARE. THANKS.




KARS

KARS's picture

Thanks for the help and understanding. Now I know what to say when I am confronted about what I believe and know to be true.




maes

maes's picture

yes ofcourse all the abrahamic religions are waiting Jesus in Jerusalem, jews think that he will be born there while christians think he is alive and will return as even muslims think he is alive and will come back. yes after God Jesus is the common point of all the humanity. and one day all the real humans will unite to save the world!




solomonblueman

solomonblueman's picture

"Pontius Pilate, the Jewish leaders, the Roman soldiers who drove the spikes into His hands and feet, you, I, we are all guilty of the blood of the Son of God".

This is a ridiculous answer to your question, "Who really killed Jesus". I did not kill him because I don't even believe he was killed as you allege. In any case it was the Jews who called for his blood to be upon them and upon their children. Are you making us all Jews? In any case, what kind of a God will punish a people for the sins of their fathers? I don't believe the God of the bible accepts this your assertion.Ezakiel 18:1-32. These teachings are paganic and should not be entertained. Why did you not accuse God for his murder since you say he brought him to be sacrificed for you? How can you accuse the people you claim executed him and leave out the one who brought him for the sacrifice?




KARS

KARS's picture

The moment Eve took that bite; then gave it to her husband Adam.
Sin then entered the world. At that point...

Our Savior Jesus Christ was given the death sentence by the human race to save us.




Durango

Durango's picture

Well now, I must take back comments I submitted about not posting everyone's comments..also I must correct an big big mistake. It's obvious that everyone needs grace.




Durango

Durango's picture

Let's be honest about what the Bible actually explicitly says. In regard to that question :

I Thessalonians 2
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

That's pretty clear , the ones that existed in that particular time were responsible for literally doing it to Jesus and the Prophets according to what's written there , unless my eyes deceive me. Jews hold a special anointed position, they have more responisibility because G-d dealt with them directly in contrast to nations with whom He did not directly deal with.

And as we can see today, leading a wholesome life today is extremely challenging because of all the mind blowing FILTH that pervades our society/culture andthe Jesus haters and G-d haters who laugh and scoff, hindering the spiritual character development for young people and people of all ages. I'd say flee from the centers where it's most pervasive but where is there to flee to as it has infected the whole world . Mainstream culture spares no opportunity to not only smear Jesus name in Hollywood films but also in the music to the point where iChat was once intolerable is now commonplace and comic relef ....so everything goes now as a result. How can one start a family and build a lasting marriage and family in this atmosphere. There is no country I escape to since this virus has contaminated the world




KARS

KARS's picture

I was being honest. Let's put it another way.

Satan the Advesary hates our LORD. Why? Because Satan lost the kingdom. Jesus past the test while being starved for 40 days and 40 nights. Now won't that make you very mad?

And since Satan was very angry, he sure wasn't using his head. How can anyone in their right mind think for one moment that they can destroy their own creator that made them? Talk about insanity.

So, MRrDurango. When the Son of Perdition (who was prophecied to come from the O.T.) was chosen; Satan enter into his heart and mind. This man named Judas Iscarot sold Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of sliver, then hung himself.
That is the truth of the matter. It was Satan in his insanity trying vainly destroy his creator.

So who in the end will have the last laugh Mr. Durango?




Durango

Durango's picture

Sometimes I get so tired of dealing with this culture and it's negative anti family environment , I think of joining an Amish community..community is important




maes

maes's picture

@ Durango
well I dont want to explain in detail, but the antichrist system that is trying to control the world and its grip is getting firmer and firmer, tries to wage war between races and religions as it did in the past. since satan wants human to kill eachother by its own hands, certainly it is the biggest enemy of human!
but what will jesus do and say when he returns in Jerusalem. that tiny land is a holy land of all religions and there has been many wars for that tiny land in the history!
while these religions have many principles in common, like monotheism, God, and a messiah that will return in Jerusalem! I'm not speaking about indivduals (unfortunately they are victims of antichrist's propaganda), but the essence and common points of religions. and I think this is what Jesus will do and what we are to do contrary to antichrist.
the more it gets near the dawn the more it darkens, certainly his return is near!




solomonblueman

solomonblueman's picture

I maintain that the Jews and the Romans killed Jesus. All who celebrate his death and believe that he came to die for them are the killers. The christian God who also sent him to come and die according to the teachings of the church is guilty of his death. Let us speak the truth and stop blaiming the whole humanity for the sin of his killers.
Why are we hidding the real killers? The truth shall make us free!




KARS

KARS's picture

@ Solomon stop blaming the Jews and Romans. It was Satan. He has caused this whole mess we are in since the Garden of Eden.

He also has chosen men and women over the centuries to work his evil plots against humanity. Do you think he loves us? Get a grip Solomon. Satan's goal is to destroy God our Father's earth again and every living breathing being on it.

Satan is so obsessed at distruction that it will take our Savior Jesus Christ to save us at his second coming. Otherwise there won't be anything left. Thus we pray to God our Father that His kingdom come and His will be done on earth as it is in His heaven.




Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

"[A]ll have sinned" (Romans 3:23a NKJV). "[S]inful humanity" as a whole is thus responsible for Christ's having to die as a "sin offering" (Romans 8:3, TNIV 2001) for each of us personally. Those who fall away "are crucifying once again the Son of God" (Hebrews 6:6, ESV 2007).




maes

maes's picture

well I respect Moses and confess that Judaism is a religion of God but there is no doubt that the jews leaders tried to confront Jesus and to kill him. since power is really elusive and they had killed other prophets already and Jesus was a revolutionary.
if we say that his death is to clear our sins then there would be no reason to be good! it does not make sense.
he died because he was and is and will be a revolutionary.
you know that what is going on near Jerusalem nowadays! what if they want to kill our dear once again and mislead the upcoming revolution!?




Durango

Durango's picture

@Ivan Veller

That still doesn't change what Saint Paul stated in 1 Thesalonians 2: 14-16

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

The Gospels tells us they cried out for his blood ...you shouldn't make excuses for what is plainly stated n the Bible . Are you denying what is states in those versus ? So let's see , not only did the Jews at that time persecute Jesus but then they persecuted unto death his disciples . Jews " literally" went out to stone the disciple of Jesus ...some Jews at that time "literally " cried out for for and directly were responsible for requesting his execution. Jesus called those corrupt Jews at that time a "brood of vipers" and today we have a brood of vipers in the legal system and wall street , which is dominated by Jews. Still up to the same things and hating on Jesus since its been a large part of their culture since antiquity, read the Talmud and how they disrespectfully refer to Jesus

If you think it's the same , to Israel and try to preach Jesus in the streets ... You will have clashes with the Jews there and you will be arrested .

It's not the same ... You're comparing apples and oranges in order to be politically correct




Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

Our own sin personally necessitated Christ's sacrifice. He died to cover our sin. So what other people did or did not do, way back when, will ultimately be irrelevant to us personally in court proceedings on the day "we must give account" (Hebrews 4:13, ESV 2007) before the risen Christ:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil" (2 Cor. 5:10 ESV).

“[God the Father] commands…repent[ance], because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by [Christ]” (Acts 17:30b-31a).

"[Y]ou have appointed a judgment...God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day. If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword..." (Psa. 7:6b, 11-12 ESV).

“[B]ecause of [our/their] hard and impenitent heart[s,] [some] are storing up wrath for [themselves] on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. [God] will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury" (Rom 5b-8 ESV).

"'I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned'" (Mat. 12:36-37 ESV).

“Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things--things that belong to salvation. For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end” (Hebrews 6:9-11 ESV).

"Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him…God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world…For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 3:24a; 4:16b-17; 5:3a ESV).




Durango

Durango's picture

By th ay some one has been messing with what I wrote in my comments to totally hange their meaning

I just edited them to correct it




Durango

Durango's picture

There is a big difference between sins that people commit through character flaws such as gambling etc.. or having a foul mouth and slandering when,contratsed aganst the killing and or destruction of a person based upon false allegations....

Lies, slander , false allegations against Jesus are what led to his execution. Regardless of the fact that a sacrifice was necessary, it is known from those versus in the Bible that there were people that cried out for his blood / execution.

Stephen was stoned to death. What do you think of that ...I guess cause they were Jewish you think they should be excused for the sin/crime of murder against an innocent man because we are all sinners ...

That is not logical .. And I doubt it's biblical ...when Jesus was executed there was a great earthquake,

It's apples and oranges ...




Durango

Durango's picture

@ivan

And your point is ?

Anyone can take scripture out of context to use them for personal agenda...deplorable.

You can try and obey all the commandments you want, but if don't accept Jesus Christ it's all in vain , if one doesnt accept his sacrifice....

Please , for those Jews that persecuted Him , he said it would be easier for those in Sodom and Gommorah on judgement day than foe those Jews at that time that not only rejected Him but persecuted him to interfere with His work and tried to prevent other Jews from being converted

In Matt. 23:23, Jesus, rebuking the Pharisees, says, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

Verse 13

Mat 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. [fn]

Mathew 10: 13

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

He called the Jews and Pharisees that persecuted him at that time " a brood of "a brood of vipers"

There is a difference between being a sinner, which we are all sinners and trying to stop the work of G-d or crying out for blood of an innocent person ...it's common sense

So do not persecute an innocent person just because you don't like them or because you may think you are more righteous , because no human being is righteous...righteousness comes by G-d's power, nothing else ...

Or don't you remember the story of the woman caught in adultery or the Good Samaritan ..

Face facts about whaT he Bble says




Durango

Durango's picture

@maes

Jews are not waiting for Jesus ..they are still waiting for their version of messiah...Most Jews even today hate Jesus ...they say blasphemous things about him and Mary

I know this cuz I used to be friends with a former Haasidic Jew in college...I broke up my friendship with him until he had apologized for offending and disrespecting my beliefs...I never at any point spoke disparagingly about Jews and never tried to convert him...

What do do you think the major reason for the two witnesses to be persecuted will be when they are preaching in Jerusalem? Along with other groups of course but It's illegal to preach Jesus in the streets of Israel ...Does this begin to make sense... No one can just go out tithe streets of Jerusalem and start preaching Christianity, thisnismamcommon misconception. It's illegal to do that in most if not all middle eastern (Muslim) countries as well.

The Bible indicates Jesusnwas a threat to the Jews establishment, their power and money making, after all he did turn over the money changers' tables; He justifiably criticized and exposed the corrupt lawyers and phony religious,leaders. The fact is alll people in power, jew or gentile, get angry when you pose a threat to their comfortable position of power / money. This still is true today. I believe Mr. Armstrong tried to bring this point home many times, regarding power structures in general.

That's why Jews need grace along witht EVERYONE else

1 Thessalonians 2 : 14-16
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.




Durango

Durango's picture

@ivan Veller

I'm not surprised by your inappropriate, completely out of context, quoting of scripture

You quote Psalm 7 : versus 6 , versus 11-12
You blatantly take out of context those versus for your own personal reasons. Pay careful attention to the following verssus Psalm chapter 7: verse 13 and 14
Kng James Version :
>>>
"13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.
14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. <<<<<<<0

So , hope you read versus 13 and 14 carefully ; the arrows are ordained against PERSECUTORS . in this case those wicked that weere persecuting Kind David

Verse 14 continues BEHOLD .... and brought forth falsehood. Falsehood , which is typical of those who "claimed" to be righteous in Jesus' time , YET they had absolutely no problem with bringing forth falsehood against Jesus.

There are many who claim to be righteous yet have no problem persecuting others with lies and or condemning others when they have their own sins.

Moreover Psalm Chapter 7 verse 6 exactly states :

6 Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.

Stating"... because of the rage of mine enemies" Here we have the context of the enemies of righteous King David and those who unjustifiably persecuted him, persecuting him with FALSEHOODS, seeking David's death .

So I fail to see the correlation or purpose in your misusage of these versus .

Whatever your intent , only G-d knows
But the only true and merciful judge with authority is Jesus who knows all things . Blessed be His Holy Name




cjgennaro

cjgennaro's picture

Durango,
Why must you say things like "I'm not suprised by your inappropriate quoting of scripture?" This seems like a very negative and degrading comment to your fellow man. These discussions are for us to be able to bounce our ideas off each other. I don't believe anyone tries to use a scripture out of context. It is a only a matter of misunderstanding. So when we have varying understandings of a scriptural point, we should try to be helpful and edify our fellow man when we have these discussions; not mock them with sarcasm.
I believe Mr. Veller's point was that no matter what sin we commit, it makes us guilty of the death penalty and necesitates Christ's sacriface. So in that sense we are responsible. It might not be as bad as those Jews who personally brought about Jesus' death. But sin is sin; no matter how small. When any of us sin, we break God's law and deserve death (Rom 6:23). Christ had to die to save us from this death penalty. Christ would not have had to die if none of us on earth had ever sinned. But we did and continue to. So we are all resposible for His death.



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