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When was Jesus Christ born?

Was Jesus born on December 25 - Christmas Day?

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A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn’t be the date for Christ’s birth. Here are two primary reasons:

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:7-8 Luke 2:7-8 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
American King James Version×
). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays , Luke’s account “suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night” (p. 309).

Similarly, The Interpreter’s One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues “against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted” shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

Second, Jesus’ parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4 Luke 2:1-4 1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
American King James Version×
). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, “the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism” (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus , 1970, p. 62).

If Jesus Christ wasn’t born on December 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus’ birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John’s mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36 Luke 1:24-36 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying, 25 Thus has the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men. 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in to her, and said, Hail, you that are highly favored, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary: for you have found favor with God. 31 And, behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give to him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary to the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Ghost shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, your cousin Elisabeth, she has also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
American King James Version×
), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John’s father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5 Luke 1:5THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
American King James Version×
). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year ( The Companion Bible , 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13 Luke 1:8-13 8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest’s office before God in the order of his course, 9 According to the custom of the priest’s office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. 11 And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell on him. 13 But the angel said to him, Fear not, Zacharias: for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elisabeth shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
American King James Version×
). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke 1:23-24 Luke 1:23-24 23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
American King James Version×
). Assuming John’s conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John’s birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus (Luke 1:35-36 Luke 1:35-36 35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Ghost shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, your cousin Elisabeth, she has also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
American King James Version×
)) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus’ birth.

Although it is difficult to determine the first time anyone celebrated December 25 as Christmas Day, historians are in general agreement that it was sometime during the fourth century. This is an amazingly late date. Christmas was not observed in Rome, the capital of the Roman Empire, until about 300 years after Christ’s death. Its origins cannot be traced back to either the teachings or practices of the earliest Christians.

  

  

To learn more about the origins of Christmas, read the following online Bible study resources:

4,000 Years of Christmas

Why Some Christians Don’t Celebrate Christmas

The Most Wonderful Time of the Year?

Was There Really “No Room in the Inn”?

Was Christ Born on Christmas Day?

The Top 10 Reasons Why I Don’t Celebrate Christmas

Bible FAQ: Is there any connection between the tree mentioned in Jeremiah 10 and the Christmas tree?

Video: The Day After Christmas

Video: The Real Meaning of Christ’s Birth

Bible Study Aid Booklet: Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Observe?

    Comments

  • charmaine

    What is the exact date of birth of jesus christ if not december 25? And the bible said to remember his passover? what is the date of christ death?

  • Steven Britt

    Charmaine, as the article points out, the bible doesn’t give us the exact date of Christ’s birth, but it does give us enough information to be sure that it was not December 25.

    As for Christ’s death on Passover, you first have to be clear on what calendar you are talking about. Passover is always on the 14th day of the 1st month of God’s calendar (see Leviticus 23), which is a lunar calendar. Because the calendar used in today’s world is solar instead of lunar, the date of Passover is different every solar year. For a list of the modern calendar dates of Passover and the other Holy Days for the next several years, see: http://www.ucg.org/holy-day-calendar/

  • mlathey

    Lets see if I can explain. The death of christ could not be on Friday as people say because if Jesus died and was dead for 3 day and 3 nights then his reserection could not be on Sunday either. The days and nights do not add up. He could have rose on Sunday because it was the day after the sabbith.The bible says he has to be killed before the sabbith so it could not have been on Friday because the sabbitth starts at sun down on Friday and ends sundown on saturday. My best guest is he died on wednesday or thursday in order that he raise on Sunday. Sunday being the sabbith is a pagen sabbbith. Sunday was ordered my constitine to be the sabbith because of the sun gods.We have all been lied to by our pastors and church teachers all of our lives. Its not their fault.They were taught the same thing. But the bible itself gives the answer. Just like everyone thinks Noah only put 2 of each kind of animal on the ark. Its not true.He put 7 of each male and 7 of each female. He put 2 of each unclean animals on the ark like pigs. Jonah,it was taught that he road in the whale for 3 days and then was spit out on land. That not all true. Jonah actually died and went to hell in that time. Just read the bible and it will show you that too. Anyways, Just a few good reason to not just read through the bible but actually pay attention to what you read. Its good to have bible studies to learn the truth. Mans word is usually what he was taught or his interpatation of what he has read. But you will find that in a great buble study group who takes the time to actually read the bible instead of just glancing through it you will learn so much more. God Bless,I hope I have helped in some way. Martin

  • triciabrown

    Actually Jesus did not rise on Sunday. Read all scriptures in the bible and it will tell you that he died on Wednsday and was ressurected on Saturday. The sabbath he rested over was the sabbath of passover. Jesus was killed the day they normally sacrifice the lamb for God that is why we no longer have to keep that practice because Jesus became our sacrificial lamb. They had a rush to kill him and bury him cause the sabbath of the passover was the next day Thursday which mother Mary and Magdeline rested over then went Friday and bought their spices to put over Jesus tomb, then they rested over the weekly Saturday sabbath. When Mary and Magdeline went to the tomb early Sunday morning BEFORE sunset Jesus was already gone. Thus Wednsday to Saturday is exactly 72 hours and by sunday he was already ressurected. So therefore we should actually be observing the holy passover and not Easter cause there is absolutely NO biblical references behind it. it is a pagan practice that has been desguised as a religious holiday. The whole Jesus was resurrected on Sunday so therefore Sunday became the Lords day is all bull and not true at all as Mlathey put it we have all be lied to our whole entire life and I was completely shocked when I had a study guide point out ALL the scritures of Jesus birth to resurrection and I was completely blown away.

  • katerina

    So let me get this right, we cannot celebrate the birth of our saviour because we don’t know the exact date and also there is no reference to celebrating his birth in the Bible?

    my views are different as we all know there are missing accounts of the Bible, for whatever reason they were either taken out or not added at all.

    I think we should celebrate Christmas even if it’s not the exact day..so what if we don’t know it? We are celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ, Our Saviour without his birth and teachings where would we be?

    yes there are gimmicks. Christians don’t honour father Christmas, or the tree these are nothing what is important is marking a day of the year, any day, that we give our thanks to our Lord.

    Easter is the same it really doesn’t matter what day Jesus was crucified, the fact remains he was and he rose.

    We should take at least one day out of our year to give thanks for his birth and one day out to give thanks for his suffering because of our selfish, greedy ways.

    I think you have to ask yourselves why you’re even questioning whether you should celebrate these days or not. After all they are in Jesus’s honour.

  • katerina

    I’ve known all my life that the holy day is a saturday and I’m a christian. Have you never heard of Sunday being the first day of the week?

    What confuses me most about all your posts is that you want to argue about day’s and dates which to me are irrelevant.

    My understanding of the Crucifixion is that it happened during passover, the Jews celebrate passover at the same time that we celebrate the resurrection. The only way to enter Heaven and be with our Lord is to go through him, to believe that he died and rose for us. As humans we are sinners by nature. We cannot be perfect so Jesus gave us an alternative way. He did this through his unconditional love for us and yet you seek to abolish the memory of such an event. What we do is remember, feel humble and grateful for his undying love. I don’t think that’s a pagan celebration.

    There is only one way

    God Bless

  • Steven Britt

    Hi Katerina,

    I have a hypothetical question for you. Say that you, being a Christian, lived in a society where most people worshiped many different gods. Every year, these people have a big celebration for the triumph of the good gods over the evil gods. They have many traditional practices, such as lighting lamps to welcome good gods, setting off fire crackers to ward off evil gods, and giving each other small gifts and candy. Would you, as a Christian, feel comfortable with taking part in this celebration, using exactly the same traditions, with the intention of honoring the triumph of the true God over Satan?

    Deuteronomy 12:30-31 specifically prohibits worshiping God in the same way that other nations worshiped their gods. He was careful to lay out exactly how he wanted to be worshiped, including which days He wanted His people to celebrate (Leviticus 23.) The celebration that I described above is the Hindu Duwali festival. I hope we can agree that no Christian should adopt their practice and mimic the worship of their false gods! However, this is EXACTLY how Christmas and Easter came to be “Christian” celebrations. Christmas is a direct copy of the Roman Saturnalia, and Easter even bears the nam of the pagan goddess it originally celebrated. This is not a matter of whether it is good to celebrate Christ’s birth or resurrection: it’s a matter of whether to worship our God the way that He specified (in Leviticus 23) as opposed to how the pagans did (Christmas, Easter, St. Valentine’s Day, St. Patrick’s Day, Halloween, etc.)

    One last comment - you said that days and dates are irrelevant to you. God’s instructions in Leviticus 23 gave specific dates for when God wanted to be worshiped. Days and dates are important to God, or else He would never have given them.

  • dziwczyna

    Katerina:

    It SHOULD matter to you (and all Christians) that the days celebrated as Christ’s birthday and resurrection are both lies and from pagan origins. God hates lies and cannot lie Himself (see Titus 1:2, Prov 6).

    The holidays you and many others are celebrating existed well before Christ was even born. They were celebrated in honour of pagan gods. God commanded us not to worship Him in this way (Deut 12:29-32). Christ also said we can worship Him in vain by keeping the commandments of men instead of God’s word as doctrine (Matt 15:9, Mark 7:7).

    Easter (the resurrection as you claim) is the name of a fertility goddess. In the Bible, the name is Ashtoreth and Asherah, which are the same as Easter. You can do a search on Bible Gateway or in your own Bible to see what God says about worshipping Ashtoreth or Asherah (it’s an abomination to him, btw).

    We must worship God in truth, as Christ commanded (John 4:24). His word is truth! His commandments are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).

  • katerina

    Hi, I’m so sorry if I offended anyone in anyway it was never my intention.

    Firstly I would like to share something with you all and maybe you will understand me a little better.
    Not long ago I had a really bad health scare, I was checked over and over again. I was scared because I have children and I didn’t handle it very well. I was given an appointment to have my final scan and aspiration before the operation which in itself was horrific.
    I have always believed in Jesus and I found myself asking him why I wasn’t cured.
    The night before I opened my heart and mind to Jesus and asked him why if I believe in him so much was I going through this? I closed my eyes and asked him to heal me as I know he can. I felt his hand upon me, I felt a rush of love go through me, so much so that I cried.
    The following day as I lay on the hospital bed, with the long needle inches away from me, I held my breath, the consultant handed the needle to the nurse and asked me when I’d had the surgery The scan revealed nothing when three previous scan had shown the mass which was the size of a golf ball, but flat or so they thought

    What I’m trying to say is that in a time that evil is at large as you pointed out with celebrations of duwali, halloween,etc that are both fashionable and crazy I would like to be able to celebrate the truth.

    I have discussed this issue with many people and my views remain the same. I suppose it all boils down to how you interpret the Bible what is clear to you may be just as clear to me, however we may see it differently.

    I don’t care who is celebrating what i.e you mentioned pagan festivals etc that’s their problem Why should I let satan take those days away.

    In my heart I know that i’m not celebrating anything other than his Birth and resurrection. I’m quite clear as to what i’m honouring.God knows who I am, I’m far,far from perfect but he loves me anyway, regardless and unconditionally.

    God Bless you all

  • katerina

    I forgot to mention that the first sunday after I was healed I attended Church and the service was all about how Jesus heals

    How he still heals today, I found that strange as I’d never heard a service like it before or since.

    I mean to say that of course I’ve heard of healing but not said in that way… coincidence? I don’t think so

  • Tom Disher

    Hi Katerina,

    I don’t think anybody was offended by your post. What you should really ask yourself is: “Does God care about HOW he is worshiped?”

    I think if you do a study, you will find that he does very much! Consider John 20:24: God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    I have no doubt that you’re worshiping him in a great attitude and spirit, but it is not the way that he tells us to worship him.

    The origins of Christmas are not pleasing to God - he shows us what he wants in the Bible. You can find a lot more information here: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-days-we-observe/does-it-matter-god/

    I think if you study this with an open mind you’ll find it interesting.

    Have a great day!

  • Sherrie G

    Katerina, I am so very happy that you were healed! However, when it comes to healing, you cannot take it as a stamp of approval for a life style. There are many examples of healing in the New Testament and in the Old Testament, when God did heal, using it as a way to get the attention of those that he was working with. He loves us all, yes. But, as a parent loves a child unconditionally, parents still ask for obedience. At times we also give things to a child in hopes that it will open their minds to a deeper understanding of a subject at hand. What if your miraculous healing was the first step to a new door swinging wide open for you? What if it was the opportunity for you to truly understand how much He loves you? What if it was an invitation to show Him just how much you do love him?

    Today people go out of their way to get loved ones the gifts that they desire. But, when it comes to showing love for God, many will say that it does not matter how we love Him. But, He tells us how He wants us to love him. He created us, loved us, and then told us how to worship Him, in love. Imagine how happy it must make Him when someone sees Him for the first time through eyes that are willing to do things His way and not our own way. I can just imagine how it must feel for God, when one of His children stops worshiping Him the way pagans have worshipped for thousands of years, and asks Him, “How do you want me to worship you”? “How can I please you”? “Thank you for everything you have done for me, now what can I do for you”?

  • katerina

    Hi, Sheeri/Tom Please don’t get me wrong I don’t think that my being healed is an approval of my life style or of me as a person, I never questioned why I was healed, I never thought I was healed because I must be special etc. I just think that if we could help our own children when they are suffering how much more will our Father be willing to help us? I didn’t need proof or anything like that but I desperately needed help.
    I’ve always felt close to God, even as a child of 9 I would take myself to church on a sunday morning alone. I can never remember a time as a child where I never spoke to God and Jesus,I don’t feel that i’m doing anything wrong or that I’m worshipping him in a wrong way.

    I have to disagree with the reference to worshipping God in the “pagan way” It doesn’t make sense to me, however I have a study Bible and I will go through it and i’ll try to see what you see.

    I take on board what you’re both saying even though I cannot understand why we can’t celebrate Christianity the way that others Celebrate their faiths that to us are false.

    How can it be wrong? In my mind it’s wrong not to, It falls at the same time that other faiths celebrate…and?? To you it makes it a Pagan celebration but to me it’s a fight back, while others are worshipping false Gods I am worshipping the truth.
    I give thanks everyday, throughout the day, for all sorts of reasons but mainly for the love we are given through Jesus, for the chance to have eternal life if we choose the right path. I’m a believer that God speaks to us through people or events. I’ve heard people refer to others as luke warm Christians, but to me I cannot judge how a person worships God or Jesus, It can’t be wrong. If you think that it’s in a pagan way then I assume you think it comes from the wrong side and I would argue that if Satan has such an influence on people then why would we believe in Jesus at all why would we not just be immoral and give caution to the wind as so many do, the celebrities, politicians etc have influence and through them people have become corrupt. What about the internet? we all use it, are we suppose to? while we are using it we support it..right? How many people and children does it corrupt? are we hypocrites? or are we turning a blind eye because it suits us

  • katerina

    hi Tom

    With reference to john 20:24 please enlighten me :) I cannot see anything that suggests i’m worshipping wrong

    I believe without seeing.

  • dziwczyna

    Hi Katerina,

    Do an online search for encyclopedias that will tell you about the origins of xmas.

    Even the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Christmas admits that Christ was not born in winter, that it NOT kept by the early New Testament Church, and that it was even outlawed in England in the 1600’s because of it’s heathen origins! The encyclopedia entry even tells us that the date of December 25th was an important date in SUN worship. It also tells us that present giving survived from pagan practices. Also greenery comes from fertility worship!

    (Martindale, Cyril Charles. “Christmas.” The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 3. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1908. 3 Dec. 2011 **Link removed to comply with comment policy**.)

    The real TRUTH is in the Bible, and we need to put our trust in our omnipotent and awesome Creator to tell us what is right and wrong.

  • katerina

    hi diziwczwna,

    I didn’t want to answer your questions until I fully digested what you were trying to say to me. I’ll try my best without sounding offensive.

    First and full most you sound as though you’re judging me, any so called Christian should be very careful about casting the first stone.

    Secondly I don’t worship God in the same way as other religions/cults worship false Gods. It is not in the same way, i’m not fooled or blinded, your interpretation is different from mine that’s all.

    I’m not worshipping a false God, I’m not holding rituals round a camp fire or erecting a statue and having orgies.

    I don’t think everyone tells lies I know Jesus wasn’t born in December it was convenient because of various other festivals to have the day then. When I celebrate Easter do you honestly think i’m celebrating the “fertility Goddess” or maybe just maybe for forty days I have Jesus in mind (not that I don’t anyway but I make my own sacrifices as he did in his honour) what he done for us, how he suffered for us, how he died and rose for us. Am I worshipping him in vain? My interpretation is different I’m sorry but it is, that is my personal heartfelt reasons. I don’t do anything for show nobody knows what I do.

    You believe that you shouldn’t celebrate the Birth and more importantly his Death, you believe that I don’t celebrate Jesus at all and that I am celebrating false Gods and worse. What can I say? It doesn’t say don’t celebrate it just says don’t worship me in vain and I’m not. It doesn’t matter if I don’t gain at all, what matters to me is my honour to our Lord I know he see’s and hears me and knows me, if i’m doing wrong then let him show me, so far I haven’t got the evidence. I have no problem in trying to keep the commandments I don’t find them a burden. I’m not perfect I try and occasionally without meaning to I find that I break them, I repent and try harder. The only sure thing I can say to you is don’t Judge. My path might be the right one for me, it may be the way that I should go, My little girl who’s 4 tells me all sorts of stories Today she said “God made Jesus mummy, but Jesus was always there, did you know that?” she’s four I’ve never said that to her and as far as I know no one has mentioned anything like that to her. We have just started reading the Childrens Bible we’re on the second page.

  • Tom Disher
    I was referring to the part of the verse that says you must both worship in spirit and in TRUTH. Christmas is a pagan holiday, and is not the TRUE day that God wants to be worshiped. It seems that your intentions are the best, but you don’t seem to see that God has already told us how He wants to be worshiped. It is not up to us. God told us to celebrate Jesus’ death, not his birth. If we love Him, we should keep his commandments! If you’d like to know a bit more, please take the time to read this booklet online: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da… It is a pretty in-depth study, and I think it can answer your questions much better than a back and forth on these comments can. Here is another article that you might find helpful: http://www.ucg.org/commentary/lets-ask-god-how-do-you-want-be-worshipped/ Hope this helps, Katerina!
  • Sherrie G

    Jeremiah 10 gives us some insight into the way that God sees himself.
    1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
    2 thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
    3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
    4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

    When you worship in a way that others do and put His name on it, He has something to say about it. He says learn not the way of the Heathen. He says that to worship in that way is to worship in vain. It isn’t that people are judging, but using the word of God to find the truth. The truth is that for God set aside a way to worshipped and He said, not to do certain things.

    His way of life, and His Holy days hold so much meaning for Christians today. They are about our future, about life after death, about the world and real peace that will when He returns to this earth. However, Christmas and Easter shroud the meaning of Christ in our lives with a mixture of truth and lies. The truth is that Jesus was born as man and that he died for our sins. The lies are so many that I will not go into them. Maybe a good place to start is with this booklet.

    http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-days-we-observe/

    It really does matter to God how we worship Him and I say this with all of the love and kindness that I can show. You honestly seem to be searching for the truth and I hope with all of my heart that this booklet helps.

  • katerina

    Hi Tom,

    I have lots of questions I hope you don’t mind

    I’m still lost, I don’t understand. I’ve read your links and they seem to be different to what I’m saying. I don’t think Christmas is about presents, santa,rudolf the tree.

    Neither do I think Easter is about bunny rabbits and eggs.

    It’s not clear, I don’t worship in Vain to me “in vain” is to erect a statue or object and worship. I don’t kiss icons or look at any saint paintings with awe.
    Just because I choose a day rather than not have the days doesn’t make it wrong.

    I take it you don’t acknowledge the birth and death on a specific day. Most Christians do this on a daily basis but I still think there should be a day of the year when we can do this, not falsely as has been said but heart felt and dedicated. Especially to the Death and resurrection.

    out of curiosity can you tell me when your church was founded and by whom? I can look it up but prefer to hear it from you as you are part of it here and now also what exactly do you celebrate and when, do you fast at all? or is that forbidden.Do you get baptized? what are your beliefs in the holy spirit? do you believe Jesus is the son of God? That he was there even before his human birth? sorry for all the questions. But I am interested

  • katerina

    Hi, dziwczyna

    Everything you’ve said I’ve thought about. What you don’t seem to understand is that I know Jesus wasn’t born in December, he has nothing to do with presents, Santa, etc

    I’m not worshiping any other God,I do not worship false prophets, the sun, the rabbits, the trees, the eggs, gods of fertility, icons, statues I am worshiping the Lord. I think what God was saying was all of the above, False prophets, where does it say Jesus. It says do not be like others, I take that to mean falsely.

    Just a question for you, do you believe Jesus was given gifts when he was born? If yes then why was his birth celebrated?

    x

  • katerina

    hi Sherrie,
    I think it all boils down to faith at the end of the day, I’ve actually searched to find some truth in what you said and I can’t.
    There is nothing in the Bible that either commands or prohibits Christmas trees. It has been falsely claimed by some that Jeremiah 10:1-16 prohibits the cutting down and decorating of trees in the same manner as we do at Christmas. However, even a cursory reading of the text makes it clear that the passage is one in which Jeremiah sets forth the prohibition against idols made of wood, plated with silver and gold, and worshipped. A similar idea appears in Isaiah 44, where Isaiah speaks of the silliness of the idol-worshippers who cut down a tree, burn part of it in the fire to warm themselves, and use the other part to fashion an idol, which they then bow down to. So unless we bow down before our Christmas tree, carve it into an idol, and pray to it, these passages cannot be applied to Christmas trees.
    There is no spiritual significance to having or not having a Christmas tree. Whatever choice we make, the motive behind a believer’s decision about this, as in all matters of conscience, must be to please the Lord. Romans 14:5-6 sets out the principle in a passage about liberty: “One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord.” The Lord is grieved when Christians look down upon one another for either celebrating or not celebrating Christmas. This is spiritual pride. When we feel that somehow we have achieve (1 Corinthians 10:31)
    I thank you wholeheartedly for taking the time to reply and share your beliefs. It is interesting how Christians differ.

    xx

  • Sherrie G

    Katrina, wanting to honor God and to worship Him is admirable. I am so glad that you find it important. When we discuss how to worship Him, there are two ways that we could go. We could go the way that He said He wanted us to go, or we could go the way that most of this world goes.
    For example, in the spring of the year many people will be celebrating Easter. They may not worship the Easter bunny and all that goes with it, but they will be worshipping God using the symbols connected to the day of Easter. This day was set aside to worship the fertility Goddess Ishtar. And with it came some practices that would make your stomach turn. Or, a person may choose to worship God on the days He set aside. It begins with Passover and then is followed by the First day of Unleavened Bread. That time is used to celebrate the death of Christ and how he paid our penalty for sin; while we spend the time reflecting on living knew in Him. It honors Him not only for what He did but also in the way that He said to honor Him.
    During the summer we celebrate Pentecost. During this time of year we are thankful that God sent the Holy Spirit to us and that it now lives within us, allowing us to draw closer to God and live a life serving Him.
    Next we worship on and celebrate the Feast of Trumpets. On this day we celebrate the time that Jesus Christ will return to this earth and set up His Kingdom. It is truly the most amazing thing to think about.
    Then comes the Day of Atonement. This day helps us to remember how much we rely on God. It points to a time when Satan will be bound and the whole world will be free from His influence. It is a time when the world will see how much Satan has influenced the way things are done.
    We then have an 8 day festival called the Feast of Tabernacles. This time pictures what life without Satan and living under the rule of Christ is all about. It is the culmination of everything that we believe in. It is a celebration of life like no other!
    These days of worship are listed within the Bible as the days that God said were His. He did not say they belonged to the Jews, He said that they belonged to Him and that they were to kept in remembrance of Him. He also gave human beings the Sabbath to remember Him by, each week we are to stop our work and think on him and worship him. These days picture the plan of God for all human beings.

  • katerina

    hi I did reply to you Sherrie however my comments were not allowed which makes me wonder why? I have a valid point to make and yet was not allowed to express it.

    Maybe I hit the nail on the head.

    very disappointed as I’ve listened to all your posts

  • Sherrie G

    katrina, sometimes there is a glitch, you post seems to have come up now.

    My point with the scripture in Jer, was to point out that we are not to learn the way of the heathen and worship as they do. God makes that clear through out scripture. I would not come home from work one night and tell my husband that although I knew his birthday was on one date, I wanted to change it and celebrate at a time that my old boyfriend celebrated his. And, although I knew that my old boyfriend did terrible terrible things that I wanted to incorporate some of those customs into the way we celebrate my husband’s birthday. He should understand and not hold it against me because I am not really celebrating my old boyfriend’s birthday, I am in fact celebrating my husband’s.

    It just would not be something any of us would do. And, that is what God says in the way that we worship him. He tells us not to bring customs into worship that are done by the heathen. It is scriptural.

    As far as Romans 14, I think you will find that was written about eating and not eating, or feasting and not feasting. It was written because some were accusing others of being less “Godly” because they were may not have been fasting as often as those that fasted sometimes twice a week.

    You can read the Old Testament and New Testament from cover to cover and never find a condemnation of observing the Holy Days, even long after Christ was crucified. What you will find is supporting evidence that those who knew him were still observing them in worship of Him.

    I also agree that worship is a matter of faith. Faith in God, doing what He says and worshipping in spirit and truth.

    There comes a time when discussing a matter is more about who is going to give up first. I really hope that you find the answers that you are searching for. I also believe many of those answers can be found here. But, it takes study and doing so with a lot of prayer. Once the truth is seen, a decision has to be made. Do we move forward in truth, or not.

    Take care my friend. I think we will have to agree to disagree at least for now.

  • katerina

    Hi Sherrie,
    I don’t celebrate any other occasions only Christmas and Easter, I understand what your saying I just don’t fully agree.

    It’s hardly the same as the birthday reference that sounds a bit extreme. I still read it as I feel it and that is not to worship blindly.

    I’m not making images or worshipping idols, I don’t kiss icons, I don’t leap for joy at the Easter bunny.

    These days are for our Lord, I can’t believe that satan would be happy about that.

    You’re saying that it’s all a farce, the dates might be however the people that worship, dedicate those days to Our Lord, that’s not worshipping like a heathen, it’s not blind worship it’s real.

    God is not cruel if i’ve made a mistake and worshipped him “wrong” let’s say, and i’ve done that in good faith, with my heart and dedicated those days to only him and known who i’ve been worshipping and thanking him then I’m not sinning. I’m not afraid of God he’s good and loving, i’m not going to stop celebrating his birth and death for fear that i’ll go to hell for simply loving him, that’s outrageous.

    yes my dear I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, however I don’t think your wrong at all, I think you have your own way and that’s the right way for you. We’re all on the same side really, just a little different that’s all.

    x

  • XCG Friend

    What does the phrase “in spirit and in truth” mean?

    In the same passage, John 4:21, Jesus said, “The hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”

    Jesus drew a definite contrast between “true worshipers” and adherents of BOTH the Jewish and Samaritan religious systems.

    Of course the Samaritans, who were transplants from Babylon, did not worship God in truth. They merely worshiped a “local deity” in ignorance. But the Jews were God’s chosen people. They worshiped precisely according to the OT commandments. Yet Jesus said, the time is coming when neither the Samaritan religion nor the Jewish religion will be true worship.

    Why not? What was wrong with their worship? What was missing?

    Why, Jesus himself! Jesus said, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life.”

    TRUE worship is worship that confesses that Jesus is the Christ, our only Lord and Savior, and the Son of God. Any worship of God that does not first acknowledge the Messiah is not worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

    Jesus said. “He who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber… . I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved” (Jn 10:1, 9).

    The Jews tried to gain righteousness by keeping the law. But strict observance of the Mosaic law was not sufficient because it did not acknowledge Christ as the Savior. The Apostle John commented, “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ” (Jn 1:17). Thus any religion that does not acknowledge Christ is ultimately vain and futile, even if it is 100% biblically based.

    This is what Jesus meant by worshiping God in truth. Jesus did not condemn the use of pagan trappings in Christian festivals or say that every religious practice or observance must come directly from the Bible or God won’t accept it.

    After all, Judaism featured many elements common to pagan religions–temples, priests, altars, sacrifices, incense, etc. Those things did not make it “untrue.”

    Jesus also apparently observed the Feast of the Dedication, a man-made holiday not commanded in the OT.

    What makes worship unacceptable is the explicit or implicit denial of Jesus as the SOLE source of salvation, not the days or symbols or objects one incorporates into one’s worship.

  • Norbert Z

    When I read numerous modern day practices within what is concidered “Christianity”, especially those for Christmas and how they developed over time, I like to read Titus 1:14 like this:

    “Not giving heed to [Christian] fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.”

    That is one of the few reasons why I avoid celebrating Christmas but still count the birth of Jesus as a blessing.

  • Sherrie G

    @XCG
    This comment is not meant to engage you in any kind of debate, which I will not. You already have your mind made up and it would only become a debate of words. However, for any other readers that might be interested, it is true that Jesus Christ should be a part of worship. He also shined a light on the way to worship and the truth of worship includes the example that he set. He kept all of the Holy Days and the Sabbath! As far as keeping a man made holiday, he did. However, it was in honor of a miracle that had been given to the people and it was not steeped in pagan rituals and symbols. Not looking for debate here, just speaking truth. Christ would never worship using pagan rituals or symbols, setting an example for all mankind to follow.

  • bringbacktruth

    Hello every one. let me throw some of you a bone that might clear this up for some of you! The term “merry chirstmas’ if you lookup the word “merry” then the word “christ” and them “mas” , You that say you celebrate our lord jesus birthday are actually say “happy christ death” with a ho ho ho in front. Just look it up people!!!!! comes from paganist roman catholics and there so called gods. And that the TRUTH! once you can except that satain has the world in a head lock rite now it will start to make sense for you. start by getting outside the american box first…. hope this helps god bless all that live by his word and those who seek it, and remember : If you cant live by GODS word on this earth in fleash for your minute time span here, how then can GOD expect you to live by his word for eternity in with him?

  • triciabrown

    Wow there is a good debate going on here. Let me add that in the end the gift of knowledge truth and understanding can only come from God, in his time and in his way. I believe this fully I have been asking God for answers for many many many years and I have been searching for the truth and trying to make sense of religion. After many agonzing years God finally gave me the gift of knowledge. I must say that it is wonderful to have its like putting a hugh puzzle together when it comes to life and God. My point here is only the individual can seek the truth and only God can give it!! When I discovered truths all i want to do was tell everyone and i had to learn the hard way that is not what im suppose to do with my knowledge, We are suppose to learn and grow and lead by example and hold on to our truth till God is ready for us to use it till God sends someone our way which in other words dont preach but wait for someone to ask you and be prepared with an answer. God uses our knowledge to draw others in!!

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