When was Jesus Christ born? Was Jesus born on December 25 - Christmas Day?

History shows that December 25 was popularized as the date for Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it was already popular in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun. But could December 25 be the date of Christ's birth?


Answer:
When was Jesus Christ born? Was Jesus born on December 25 - Christmas Day?
Source: Photos.com

"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early Christian teachers suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement...picked November 18. Hippolytus...figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday...An anonymous document[,] believed to have been written in North Africa around A.D. 243, placed Jesus's birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report , "In Search of Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).

A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn't be the date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke:2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays , Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).

Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke:2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus , 1970, p. 62).

If Jesus Christ wasn't born on December 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke:1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year ( The Companion Bible , 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke:1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke:1:23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus (Luke:1:35-36)) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

Although it is difficult to determine the first time anyone celebrated December 25 as Christmas Day, historians are in general agreement that it was sometime during the fourth century. This is an amazingly late date. Christmas was not observed in Rome, the capital of the Roman Empire, until about 300 years after Christ's death. Its origins cannot be traced back to either the teachings or practices of the earliest Christians.

 

To learn more about the origins of Christmas, read the following online Bible study resources:

4,000 Years of Christmas

Why Some Christians Don't Celebrate Christmas

The Most Wonderful Time of the Year?

Was There Really "No Room in the Inn"?

Was Christ Born on Christmas Day?

The Top 10 Reasons Why I Don't Celebrate Christmas

What is the true biblical account of the Jesus' nativity story?

Bible FAQ: Is there any connection between the tree mentioned in Jeremiah 10 and the Christmas tree?

Video: The Day After Christmas

Video: The Real Meaning of Christ's Birth

Bible Study Aid Booklet: Holiday or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Observe?


charmaine

charmaine's picture

What is the exact date of birth of jesus christ if not december 25? And the bible said to remember his passover? what is the date of christ death?




Steven Britt

Steven Britt's picture

Charmaine, as the article points out, the bible doesn't give us the exact date of Christ's birth, but it does give us enough information to be sure that it was not December 25.

As for Christ's death on Passover, you first have to be clear on what calendar you are talking about. Passover is always on the 14th day of the 1st month of God's calendar (see Leviticus 23), which is a lunar calendar. Because the calendar used in today's world is solar instead of lunar, the date of Passover is different every solar year. For a list of the modern calendar dates of Passover and the other Holy Days for the next several years, see: http://www.ucg.org/holy-day-calendar/




mlathey

mlathey's picture

Lets see if I can explain. The death of christ could not be on Friday as people say because if Jesus died and was dead for 3 day and 3 nights then his reserection could not be on Sunday either. The days and nights do not add up. He could have rose on Sunday because it was the day after the sabbith.The bible says he has to be killed before the sabbith so it could not have been on Friday because the sabbitth starts at sun down on Friday and ends sundown on saturday. My best guest is he died on wednesday or thursday in order that he raise on Sunday. Sunday being the sabbith is a pagen sabbbith. Sunday was ordered my constitine to be the sabbith because of the sun gods.We have all been lied to by our pastors and church teachers all of our lives. Its not their fault.They were taught the same thing. But the bible itself gives the answer. Just like everyone thinks Noah only put 2 of each kind of animal on the ark. Its not true.He put 7 of each male and 7 of each female. He put 2 of each unclean animals on the ark like pigs. Jonah,it was taught that he road in the whale for 3 days and then was spit out on land. That not all true. Jonah actually died and went to hell in that time. Just read the bible and it will show you that too. Anyways, Just a few good reason to not just read through the bible but actually pay attention to what you read. Its good to have bible studies to learn the truth. Mans word is usually what he was taught or his interpatation of what he has read. But you will find that in a great buble study group who takes the time to actually read the bible instead of just glancing through it you will learn so much more. God Bless,I hope I have helped in some way. Martin




triciabrown

triciabrown's picture

Actually Jesus did not rise on Sunday. Read all scriptures in the bible and it will tell you that he died on Wednsday and was ressurected on Saturday. The sabbath he rested over was the sabbath of passover. Jesus was killed the day they normally sacrifice the lamb for God that is why we no longer have to keep that practice because Jesus became our sacrificial lamb. They had a rush to kill him and bury him cause the sabbath of the passover was the next day Thursday which mother Mary and Magdeline rested over then went Friday and bought their spices to put over Jesus tomb, then they rested over the weekly Saturday sabbath. When Mary and Magdeline went to the tomb early Sunday morning BEFORE sunset Jesus was already gone. Thus Wednsday to Saturday is exactly 72 hours and by sunday he was already ressurected. So therefore we should actually be observing the holy passover and not Easter cause there is absolutely NO biblical references behind it. it is a pagan practice that has been desguised as a religious holiday. The whole Jesus was resurrected on Sunday so therefore Sunday became the Lords day is all bull and not true at all as Mlathey put it we have all be lied to our whole entire life and I was completely shocked when I had a study guide point out ALL the scritures of Jesus birth to resurrection and I was completely blown away.




katerina

katerina's picture

So let me get this right, we cannot celebrate the birth of our saviour because we don't know the exact date and also there is no reference to celebrating his birth in the Bible?

my views are different as we all know there are missing accounts of the Bible, for whatever reason they were either taken out or not added at all.

I think we should celebrate Christmas even if it's not the exact day..so what if we don't know it? We are celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ, Our Saviour without his birth and teachings where would we be?

yes there are gimmicks. Christians don't honour father Christmas, or the tree these are nothing what is important is marking a day of the year, any day, that we give our thanks to our Lord.

Easter is the same it really doesn't matter what day Jesus was crucified, the fact remains he was and he rose.

We should take at least one day out of our year to give thanks for his birth and one day out to give thanks for his suffering because of our selfish, greedy ways.

I think you have to ask yourselves why you're even questioning whether you should celebrate these days or not. After all they are in Jesus's honour.




katerina

katerina's picture

I've known all my life that the holy day is a saturday and I'm a christian. Have you never heard of Sunday being the first day of the week?

What confuses me most about all your posts is that you want to argue about day's and dates which to me are irrelevant.

My understanding of the Crucifixion is that it happened during passover, the Jews celebrate passover at the same time that we celebrate the resurrection. The only way to enter Heaven and be with our Lord is to go through him, to believe that he died and rose for us. As humans we are sinners by nature. We cannot be perfect so Jesus gave us an alternative way. He did this through his unconditional love for us and yet you seek to abolish the memory of such an event. What we do is remember, feel humble and grateful for his undying love. I don't think that's a pagan celebration.

There is only one way

God Bless




Steven Britt

Steven Britt's picture

Hi Katerina,

I have a hypothetical question for you. Say that you, being a Christian, lived in a society where most people worshiped many different gods. Every year, these people have a big celebration for the triumph of the good gods over the evil gods. They have many traditional practices, such as lighting lamps to welcome good gods, setting off fire crackers to ward off evil gods, and giving each other small gifts and candy. Would you, as a Christian, feel comfortable with taking part in this celebration, using exactly the same traditions, with the intention of honoring the triumph of the true God over Satan?

Deuteronomy 12:30-31 specifically prohibits worshiping God in the same way that other nations worshiped their gods. He was careful to lay out exactly how he wanted to be worshiped, including which days He wanted His people to celebrate (Leviticus 23.) The celebration that I described above is the Hindu Duwali festival. I hope we can agree that no Christian should adopt their practice and mimic the worship of their false gods! However, this is EXACTLY how Christmas and Easter came to be "Christian" celebrations. Christmas is a direct copy of the Roman Saturnalia, and Easter even bears the nam of the pagan goddess it originally celebrated. This is not a matter of whether it is good to celebrate Christ's birth or resurrection: it's a matter of whether to worship our God the way that He specified (in Leviticus 23) as opposed to how the pagans did (Christmas, Easter, St. Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Halloween, etc.)

One last comment - you said that days and dates are irrelevant to you. God's instructions in Leviticus 23 gave specific dates for when God wanted to be worshiped. Days and dates are important to God, or else He would never have given them.




dziwczyna

dziwczyna's picture

Katerina:

It SHOULD matter to you (and all Christians) that the days celebrated as Christ's birthday and resurrection are both lies and from pagan origins. God hates lies and cannot lie Himself (see Titus 1:2, Prov 6).

The holidays you and many others are celebrating existed well before Christ was even born. They were celebrated in honour of pagan gods. God commanded us not to worship Him in this way (Deut 12:29-32). Christ also said we can worship Him in vain by keeping the commandments of men instead of God's word as doctrine (Matt 15:9, Mark 7:7).

Easter (the resurrection as you claim) is the name of a fertility goddess. In the Bible, the name is Ashtoreth and Asherah, which are the same as Easter. You can do a search on Bible Gateway or in your own Bible to see what God says about worshipping Ashtoreth or Asherah (it's an abomination to him, btw).

We must worship God in truth, as Christ commanded (John 4:24). His word is truth! His commandments are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).




katerina

katerina's picture

Hi, I'm so sorry if I offended anyone in anyway it was never my intention.

Firstly I would like to share something with you all and maybe you will understand me a little better.
Not long ago I had a really bad health scare, I was checked over and over again. I was scared because I have children and I didn't handle it very well. I was given an appointment to have my final scan and aspiration before the operation which in itself was horrific.
I have always believed in Jesus and I found myself asking him why I wasn't cured.
The night before I opened my heart and mind to Jesus and asked him why if I believe in him so much was I going through this? I closed my eyes and asked him to heal me as I know he can. I felt his hand upon me, I felt a rush of love go through me, so much so that I cried.
The following day as I lay on the hospital bed, with the long needle inches away from me, I held my breath, the consultant handed the needle to the nurse and asked me when I'd had the surgery The scan revealed nothing when three previous scan had shown the mass which was the size of a golf ball, but flat or so they thought

What I'm trying to say is that in a time that evil is at large as you pointed out with celebrations of duwali, halloween,etc that are both fashionable and crazy I would like to be able to celebrate the truth.

I have discussed this issue with many people and my views remain the same. I suppose it all boils down to how you interpret the Bible what is clear to you may be just as clear to me, however we may see it differently.

I don't care who is celebrating what i.e you mentioned pagan festivals etc that's their problem Why should I let satan take those days away.

In my heart I know that i'm not celebrating anything other than his Birth and resurrection. I'm quite clear as to what i'm honouring.God knows who I am, I'm far,far from perfect but he loves me anyway, regardless and unconditionally.

God Bless you all




Tom Disher

Tom Disher's picture

Hi Katerina,

I don't think anybody was offended by your post. What you should really ask yourself is: "Does God care about HOW he is worshiped?"

I think if you do a study, you will find that he does very much! Consider John 20:24: God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

I have no doubt that you're worshiping him in a great attitude and spirit, but it is not the way that he tells us to worship him.

The origins of Christmas are not pleasing to God - he shows us what he wants in the Bible. You can find a lot more information here: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-days-we-observe/does-it-matter-god/

I think if you study this with an open mind you'll find it interesting.

Have a great day!




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

Katerina, I am so very happy that you were healed! However, when it comes to healing, you cannot take it as a stamp of approval for a life style. There are many examples of healing in the New Testament and in the Old Testament, when God did heal, using it as a way to get the attention of those that he was working with. He loves us all, yes. But, as a parent loves a child unconditionally, parents still ask for obedience. At times we also give things to a child in hopes that it will open their minds to a deeper understanding of a subject at hand. What if your miraculous healing was the first step to a new door swinging wide open for you? What if it was the opportunity for you to truly understand how much He loves you? What if it was an invitation to show Him just how much you do love him?

Today people go out of their way to get loved ones the gifts that they desire. But, when it comes to showing love for God, many will say that it does not matter how we love Him. But, He tells us how He wants us to love him. He created us, loved us, and then told us how to worship Him, in love. Imagine how happy it must make Him when someone sees Him for the first time through eyes that are willing to do things His way and not our own way. I can just imagine how it must feel for God, when one of His children stops worshiping Him the way pagans have worshipped for thousands of years, and asks Him, "How do you want me to worship you"? "How can I please you"? "Thank you for everything you have done for me, now what can I do for you"?




katerina

katerina's picture

Hi, Sheeri/Tom Please don't get me wrong I don't think that my being healed is an approval of my life style or of me as a person, I never questioned why I was healed, I never thought I was healed because I must be special etc. I just think that if we could help our own children when they are suffering how much more will our Father be willing to help us? I didn't need proof or anything like that but I desperately needed help.
I've always felt close to God, even as a child of 9 I would take myself to church on a sunday morning alone. I can never remember a time as a child where I never spoke to God and Jesus,I don't feel that i'm doing anything wrong or that I'm worshipping him in a wrong way.

I have to disagree with the reference to worshipping God in the "pagan way" It doesn't make sense to me, however I have a study Bible and I will go through it and i'll try to see what you see.

I take on board what you're both saying even though I cannot understand why we can't celebrate Christianity the way that others Celebrate their faiths that to us are false.

How can it be wrong? In my mind it's wrong not to, It falls at the same time that other faiths celebrate...and?? To you it makes it a Pagan celebration but to me it's a fight back, while others are worshipping false Gods I am worshipping the truth.
I give thanks everyday, throughout the day, for all sorts of reasons but mainly for the love we are given through Jesus, for the chance to have eternal life if we choose the right path. I'm a believer that God speaks to us through people or events. I've heard people refer to others as luke warm Christians, but to me I cannot judge how a person worships God or Jesus, It can't be wrong. If you think that it's in a pagan way then I assume you think it comes from the wrong side and I would argue that if Satan has such an influence on people then why would we believe in Jesus at all why would we not just be immoral and give caution to the wind as so many do, the celebrities, politicians etc have influence and through them people have become corrupt. What about the internet? we all use it, are we suppose to? while we are using it we support it..right? How many people and children does it corrupt? are we hypocrites? or are we turning a blind eye because it suits us




katerina

katerina's picture

hi Tom

With reference to john 20:24 please enlighten me :) I cannot see anything that suggests i'm worshipping wrong

I believe without seeing.




dziwczyna

dziwczyna's picture

Hi Katerina,

Do an online search for encyclopedias that will tell you about the origins of xmas.

Even the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Christmas admits that Christ was not born in winter, that it NOT kept by the early New Testament Church, and that it was even outlawed in England in the 1600's because of it's heathen origins! The encyclopedia entry even tells us that the date of December 25th was an important date in SUN worship. It also tells us that present giving survived from pagan practices. Also greenery comes from fertility worship!

(Martindale, Cyril Charles. "Christmas." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 3. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1908. 3 Dec. 2011 **Link removed to comply with comment policy**.)

The real TRUTH is in the Bible, and we need to put our trust in our omnipotent and awesome Creator to tell us what is right and wrong.




katerina

katerina's picture

hi diziwczwna,

I didn't want to answer your questions until I fully digested what you were trying to say to me. I'll try my best without sounding offensive.

First and full most you sound as though you're judging me, any so called Christian should be very careful about casting the first stone.

Secondly I don't worship God in the same way as other religions/cults worship false Gods. It is not in the same way, i'm not fooled or blinded, your interpretation is different from mine that's all.

I'm not worshipping a false God, I'm not holding rituals round a camp fire or erecting a statue and having orgies.

I don't think everyone tells lies I know Jesus wasn't born in December it was convenient because of various other festivals to have the day then. When I celebrate Easter do you honestly think i'm celebrating the "fertility Goddess" or maybe just maybe for forty days I have Jesus in mind (not that I don't anyway but I make my own sacrifices as he did in his honour) what he done for us, how he suffered for us, how he died and rose for us. Am I worshipping him in vain? My interpretation is different I'm sorry but it is, that is my personal heartfelt reasons. I don't do anything for show nobody knows what I do.

You believe that you shouldn't celebrate the Birth and more importantly his Death, you believe that I don't celebrate Jesus at all and that I am celebrating false Gods and worse. What can I say? It doesn't say don't celebrate it just says don't worship me in vain and I'm not. It doesn't matter if I don't gain at all, what matters to me is my honour to our Lord I know he see's and hears me and knows me, if i'm doing wrong then let him show me, so far I haven't got the evidence. I have no problem in trying to keep the commandments I don't find them a burden. I'm not perfect I try and occasionally without meaning to I find that I break them, I repent and try harder. The only sure thing I can say to you is don't Judge. My path might be the right one for me, it may be the way that I should go, My little girl who's 4 tells me all sorts of stories Today she said "God made Jesus mummy, but Jesus was always there, did you know that?" she's four I've never said that to her and as far as I know no one has mentioned anything like that to her. We have just started reading the Childrens Bible we're on the second page.




Tom Disher

Tom Disher's picture

I was referring to the part of the verse that says you must both worship in spirit and in TRUTH. Christmas is a pagan holiday, and is not the TRUE day that God wants to be worshiped. It seems that your intentions are the best, but you don't seem to see that God has already told us how He wants to be worshiped. It is not up to us.

God told us to celebrate Jesus' death, not his birth. If we love Him, we should keep his commandments!

If you'd like to know a bit more, please take the time to read this booklet online: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da...

It is a pretty in-depth study, and I think it can answer your questions much better than a back and forth on these comments can.

Here is another article that you might find helpful: http://www.ucg.org/commentary/lets-ask-god-how-do-you-want-be-worshipped/

Hope this helps, Katerina!




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

Jeremiah 10 gives us some insight into the way that God sees himself.
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

When you worship in a way that others do and put His name on it, He has something to say about it. He says learn not the way of the Heathen. He says that to worship in that way is to worship in vain. It isn't that people are judging, but using the word of God to find the truth. The truth is that for God set aside a way to worshipped and He said, not to do certain things.

His way of life, and His Holy days hold so much meaning for Christians today. They are about our future, about life after death, about the world and real peace that will when He returns to this earth. However, Christmas and Easter shroud the meaning of Christ in our lives with a mixture of truth and lies. The truth is that Jesus was born as man and that he died for our sins. The lies are so many that I will not go into them. Maybe a good place to start is with this booklet.

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-days-we-observe/

It really does matter to God how we worship Him and I say this with all of the love and kindness that I can show. You honestly seem to be searching for the truth and I hope with all of my heart that this booklet helps.




katerina

katerina's picture

Hi Tom,

I have lots of questions I hope you don't mind

I'm still lost, I don't understand. I've read your links and they seem to be different to what I'm saying. I don't think Christmas is about presents, santa,rudolf the tree.

Neither do I think Easter is about bunny rabbits and eggs.

It's not clear, I don't worship in Vain to me "in vain" is to erect a statue or object and worship. I don't kiss icons or look at any saint paintings with awe.
Just because I choose a day rather than not have the days doesn't make it wrong.

I take it you don't acknowledge the birth and death on a specific day. Most Christians do this on a daily basis but I still think there should be a day of the year when we can do this, not falsely as has been said but heart felt and dedicated. Especially to the Death and resurrection.

out of curiosity can you tell me when your church was founded and by whom? I can look it up but prefer to hear it from you as you are part of it here and now also what exactly do you celebrate and when, do you fast at all? or is that forbidden.Do you get baptized? what are your beliefs in the holy spirit? do you believe Jesus is the son of God? That he was there even before his human birth? sorry for all the questions. But I am interested




katerina

katerina's picture

Hi, dziwczyna

Everything you've said I've thought about. What you don't seem to understand is that I know Jesus wasn't born in December, he has nothing to do with presents, Santa, etc

I'm not worshiping any other God,I do not worship false prophets, the sun, the rabbits, the trees, the eggs, gods of fertility, icons, statues I am worshiping the Lord. I think what God was saying was all of the above, False prophets, where does it say Jesus. It says do not be like others, I take that to mean falsely.

Just a question for you, do you believe Jesus was given gifts when he was born? If yes then why was his birth celebrated?

x




katerina

katerina's picture

hi Sherrie,
I think it all boils down to faith at the end of the day, I've actually searched to find some truth in what you said and I can't.
There is nothing in the Bible that either commands or prohibits Christmas trees. It has been falsely claimed by some that Jeremiah 10:1-16 prohibits the cutting down and decorating of trees in the same manner as we do at Christmas. However, even a cursory reading of the text makes it clear that the passage is one in which Jeremiah sets forth the prohibition against idols made of wood, plated with silver and gold, and worshipped. A similar idea appears in Isaiah 44, where Isaiah speaks of the silliness of the idol-worshippers who cut down a tree, burn part of it in the fire to warm themselves, and use the other part to fashion an idol, which they then bow down to. So unless we bow down before our Christmas tree, carve it into an idol, and pray to it, these passages cannot be applied to Christmas trees.
There is no spiritual significance to having or not having a Christmas tree. Whatever choice we make, the motive behind a believer’s decision about this, as in all matters of conscience, must be to please the Lord. Romans 14:5-6 sets out the principle in a passage about liberty: “One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord.” The Lord is grieved when Christians look down upon one another for either celebrating or not celebrating Christmas. This is spiritual pride. When we feel that somehow we have achieve (1 Corinthians 10:31)
I thank you wholeheartedly for taking the time to reply and share your beliefs. It is interesting how Christians differ.

xx




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

Katrina, wanting to honor God and to worship Him is admirable. I am so glad that you find it important. When we discuss how to worship Him, there are two ways that we could go. We could go the way that He said He wanted us to go, or we could go the way that most of this world goes.
For example, in the spring of the year many people will be celebrating Easter. They may not worship the Easter bunny and all that goes with it, but they will be worshipping God using the symbols connected to the day of Easter. This day was set aside to worship the fertility Goddess Ishtar. And with it came some practices that would make your stomach turn. Or, a person may choose to worship God on the days He set aside. It begins with Passover and then is followed by the First day of Unleavened Bread. That time is used to celebrate the death of Christ and how he paid our penalty for sin; while we spend the time reflecting on living knew in Him. It honors Him not only for what He did but also in the way that He said to honor Him.
During the summer we celebrate Pentecost. During this time of year we are thankful that God sent the Holy Spirit to us and that it now lives within us, allowing us to draw closer to God and live a life serving Him.
Next we worship on and celebrate the Feast of Trumpets. On this day we celebrate the time that Jesus Christ will return to this earth and set up His Kingdom. It is truly the most amazing thing to think about.
Then comes the Day of Atonement. This day helps us to remember how much we rely on God. It points to a time when Satan will be bound and the whole world will be free from His influence. It is a time when the world will see how much Satan has influenced the way things are done.
We then have an 8 day festival called the Feast of Tabernacles. This time pictures what life without Satan and living under the rule of Christ is all about. It is the culmination of everything that we believe in. It is a celebration of life like no other!
These days of worship are listed within the Bible as the days that God said were His. He did not say they belonged to the Jews, He said that they belonged to Him and that they were to kept in remembrance of Him. He also gave human beings the Sabbath to remember Him by, each week we are to stop our work and think on him and worship him. These days picture the plan of God for all human beings.




katerina

katerina's picture

hi I did reply to you Sherrie however my comments were not allowed which makes me wonder why? I have a valid point to make and yet was not allowed to express it.

Maybe I hit the nail on the head.

very disappointed as I've listened to all your posts




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

katrina, sometimes there is a glitch, you post seems to have come up now.

My point with the scripture in Jer, was to point out that we are not to learn the way of the heathen and worship as they do. God makes that clear through out scripture. I would not come home from work one night and tell my husband that although I knew his birthday was on one date, I wanted to change it and celebrate at a time that my old boyfriend celebrated his. And, although I knew that my old boyfriend did terrible terrible things that I wanted to incorporate some of those customs into the way we celebrate my husband's birthday. He should understand and not hold it against me because I am not really celebrating my old boyfriend's birthday, I am in fact celebrating my husband's.

It just would not be something any of us would do. And, that is what God says in the way that we worship him. He tells us not to bring customs into worship that are done by the heathen. It is scriptural.

As far as Romans 14, I think you will find that was written about eating and not eating, or feasting and not feasting. It was written because some were accusing others of being less "Godly" because they were may not have been fasting as often as those that fasted sometimes twice a week.

You can read the Old Testament and New Testament from cover to cover and never find a condemnation of observing the Holy Days, even long after Christ was crucified. What you will find is supporting evidence that those who knew him were still observing them in worship of Him.

I also agree that worship is a matter of faith. Faith in God, doing what He says and worshipping in spirit and truth.

There comes a time when discussing a matter is more about who is going to give up first. I really hope that you find the answers that you are searching for. I also believe many of those answers can be found here. But, it takes study and doing so with a lot of prayer. Once the truth is seen, a decision has to be made. Do we move forward in truth, or not.

Take care my friend. I think we will have to agree to disagree at least for now.




katerina

katerina's picture

Hi Sherrie,
I don't celebrate any other occasions only Christmas and Easter, I understand what your saying I just don't fully agree.

It's hardly the same as the birthday reference that sounds a bit extreme. I still read it as I feel it and that is not to worship blindly.

I'm not making images or worshipping idols, I don't kiss icons, I don't leap for joy at the Easter bunny.

These days are for our Lord, I can't believe that satan would be happy about that.

You're saying that it's all a farce, the dates might be however the people that worship, dedicate those days to Our Lord, that's not worshipping like a heathen, it's not blind worship it's real.

God is not cruel if i've made a mistake and worshipped him "wrong" let's say, and i've done that in good faith, with my heart and dedicated those days to only him and known who i've been worshipping and thanking him then I'm not sinning. I'm not afraid of God he's good and loving, i'm not going to stop celebrating his birth and death for fear that i'll go to hell for simply loving him, that's outrageous.

yes my dear I think we'll have to agree to disagree, however I don't think your wrong at all, I think you have your own way and that's the right way for you. We're all on the same side really, just a little different that's all.

x




XCG Friend

XCG Friend's picture

What does the phrase "in spirit and in truth" mean?

In the same passage, John 4:21, Jesus said, "The hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father."

Jesus drew a definite contrast between "true worshipers" and adherents of BOTH the Jewish and Samaritan religious systems.

Of course the Samaritans, who were transplants from Babylon, did not worship God in truth. They merely worshiped a "local deity" in ignorance. But the Jews were God's chosen people. They worshiped precisely according to the OT commandments. Yet Jesus said, the time is coming when neither the Samaritan religion nor the Jewish religion will be true worship.

Why not? What was wrong with their worship? What was missing?

Why, Jesus himself! Jesus said, "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life."

TRUE worship is worship that confesses that Jesus is the Christ, our only Lord and Savior, and the Son of God. Any worship of God that does not first acknowledge the Messiah is not worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

Jesus said. "He who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. . . . I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved" (Jn 10:1, 9).

The Jews tried to gain righteousness by keeping the law. But strict observance of the Mosaic law was not sufficient because it did not acknowledge Christ as the Savior. The Apostle John commented, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ" (Jn 1:17). Thus any religion that does not acknowledge Christ is ultimately vain and futile, even if it is 100% biblically based.

This is what Jesus meant by worshiping God in truth. Jesus did not condemn the use of pagan trappings in Christian festivals or say that every religious practice or observance must come directly from the Bible or God won't accept it.

After all, Judaism featured many elements common to pagan religions--temples, priests, altars, sacrifices, incense, etc. Those things did not make it "untrue."

Jesus also apparently observed the Feast of the Dedication, a man-made holiday not commanded in the OT.

What makes worship unacceptable is the explicit or implicit denial of Jesus as the SOLE source of salvation, not the days or symbols or objects one incorporates into one's worship.




Norbert Z

Norbert Z's picture

When I read numerous modern day practices within what is concidered "Christianity", especially those for Christmas and how they developed over time, I like to read Titus 1:14 like this:

"Not giving heed to [Christian] fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."

That is one of the few reasons why I avoid celebrating Christmas but still count the birth of Jesus as a blessing.




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

@XCG
This comment is not meant to engage you in any kind of debate, which I will not. You already have your mind made up and it would only become a debate of words. However, for any other readers that might be interested, it is true that Jesus Christ should be a part of worship. He also shined a light on the way to worship and the truth of worship includes the example that he set. He kept all of the Holy Days and the Sabbath! As far as keeping a man made holiday, he did. However, it was in honor of a miracle that had been given to the people and it was not steeped in pagan rituals and symbols. Not looking for debate here, just speaking truth. Christ would never worship using pagan rituals or symbols, setting an example for all mankind to follow.




katerina

katerina's picture

I forgot to mention that the first sunday after I was healed I attended Church and the service was all about how Jesus heals

How he still heals today, I found that strange as I'd never heard a service like it before or since.

I mean to say that of course I've heard of healing but not said in that way... coincidence? I don't think so




bringbacktruth

bringbacktruth's picture

Hello every one. let me throw some of you a bone that might clear this up for some of you! The term "merry chirstmas' if you lookup the word "merry" then the word "christ" and them "mas" , You that say you celebrate our lord jesus birthday are actually say "happy christ death" with a ho ho ho in front. Just look it up people!!!!! comes from paganist roman catholics and there so called gods. And that the TRUTH! once you can except that satain has the world in a head lock rite now it will start to make sense for you. start by getting outside the american box first.... hope this helps god bless all that live by his word and those who seek it, and remember : If you cant live by GODS word on this earth in fleash for your minute time span here, how then can GOD expect you to live by his word for eternity in with him?




triciabrown

triciabrown's picture

Wow there is a good debate going on here. Let me add that in the end the gift of knowledge truth and understanding can only come from God, in his time and in his way. I believe this fully I have been asking God for answers for many many many years and I have been searching for the truth and trying to make sense of religion. After many agonzing years God finally gave me the gift of knowledge. I must say that it is wonderful to have its like putting a hugh puzzle together when it comes to life and God. My point here is only the individual can seek the truth and only God can give it!! When I discovered truths all i want to do was tell everyone and i had to learn the hard way that is not what im suppose to do with my knowledge, We are suppose to learn and grow and lead by example and hold on to our truth till God is ready for us to use it till God sends someone our way which in other words dont preach but wait for someone to ask you and be prepared with an answer. God uses our knowledge to draw others in!!




katerina

katerina's picture

re: bringbacktruth

It's CHRIST MASS actually.

The celebrated mass of Christ, in no Church mass have I ever heard the priest/pastor/monk talk about Jesus's death as being "merry"

surely at some point these "people" that are dedicating their lives would slip up.

you have a couple of valid points but this isn't one of them.

If the first Christmas is important, why not celebrate? You all fear satan too much that's why you restrain from celebrating The birth and Resurrection of Jesus.

It's all done through fear that you're being tricked. Well maybe talking "outside the box" as you put it, you're being fooled into denying our Lord by not acknowledging his birth/death and Resurrection.

Just a thought




Sherrie G

Sherrie G's picture

@Katrina, if you read my posts you would see that we Do keep the Passover as a memorial of His death! His death is the only way our sins are paid for. We live the way we do, not out of a fear for Satan, but a love for our Lord and Savior and the fact that He died for us.




katerina

katerina's picture

Sherrie, if you read my posts you can see that that's exactly the same reason I keep Easter, you call it passover but it's the same thing. You say you keep it out of love of our Lord, however if he had not been born you would have nothing to celebrate!

Jesus was born to give us a chance, to die for our sins. I want to celebrate his birth as it's equally important.

You can say this and that, interpret the Bible to suit you but at the end of the day, I'm not afraid to honor the day our Lord was born even if it's at the wrong time of year I think it can be excused as NOBODY knows the exact date.

So we pick a day, so what, it's better than not honoring at all in case we're doing the devils work,

What's he thinking? haha i've tricked them into rejoicing that Jesus was born, look they actually celebrate his birth! Same with Easter, those poor souls that repent and fast in honor of our Lord.

It doesn't make sense. You can only go to heaven through the door and Jesus is the door that we must use, only through him will we enter.How we do that as individuals cannot be wrong the only way it can be wrong is not to believe.

satan is nothing he will corrupt those who want to be corrupted through greed or power or gain.

x




ucgadmin

ucgadmin's picture

Hello all - just a quick reminder of the comment policy

This back and forth has started to approach a breach of the comment policy:

5. Comments that seek a platform to go beyond normal discussion, such as using the comment functionality to enter lengthy debate, are unlikely to be approved. If you would like to suggest additions or corrections to teachings of the United Church of God, please use our contact form.

We state our beliefs above, and in several other resources - they can be found here: http://www.ucg.org/holidays-and-holy-days/mans-holidays/christmas

Thank you all for the discussion. I hope that you will all meditate on the things above and open your Bible to find out what God really wants from us, and how He really wants to be worshiped.

Please keep this all in mind while posting.




Aaron Booth

Aaron Booth's picture

Hello everyone,

As the Internet Manager for the United Church of God (and responsible for the day-to-day web operations), I am always interested in what brings people to the ucg.org website. The majority of our web traffic comes from searches on Google, Bing, Yahoo or another search engine. Sometimes people come to this website because a friend recommended an article maybe through Facebook or an email message. What usually brings people to this website is that people have a question and they are trying to find the answers - naturally they go to a search engine and possibly end up here.

I have noticed that during the holiday seasons (Christmas and Easter) that people search more for the real meanings of these holidays - in the hopes to understand more and make more sense of Christmas or Easter. The individual comes across an article or FAQ within the search results, finds the title or description interesting, clicks on the link and might arrive on a webpage within the ucg.org site. As they glance over the content - the article or FAQ - those questions might be answered but not from a perspective they were prepared for - what they read goes against everything they have known. At this point, there are two choices the individual does - clicks out of the website or they continue to read and find out more and then possibly explore more of the website.

The question I have is "Did you find the answer to what you were searching for that led you to this particular website?" There are numerous Bible Study resources available here that will take hours, days, weeks or even years to really digest and understand. The purpose of this website is to point you back to the Bible - so that you will read the Bible with renewed zeal and build a more meaningful relationship with God.

Many people offer their opinions and comments within this site - but we want everyone to take the time to personally search (Bible study and prayer) what the entire Bible says in both the Old & New Testament.

Keep this in mind..."All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

I hope that the various Bible Study aid resources will assist you in your studies. All the best in your search.




fruitbearer

fruitbearer's picture

First and foremost, hello i am new to this site i hope i can get great inspiration and satisfaction from here?.
Secondly after reading all the comments above, im like guys come on does it really matter, the very fact that he was born and died and finally rose again should be more than enough.
Now i will not call myself a "christian" saved yes by his grace but i do not like labels, so i class myself as a follower of Jesus Christ, now his very words ring bells in my ears as im reading these comments, and the main one that springs to mind is? Satan wants us to believe that he didn't walk the earth and did not die for our sins etc etc, but also he is the biggest deciever going.
Just stick to the basics i know that will be hard for some but J.C wants us to go to him like children does he not? why get all technical n confusing is beyond me, John 3:16 says it all for me really and to me makes it end of short sweet n simple, but guys plz dont think im knocking offfending etc because that is not me who am i to judge Matt 7:1 i am just merely expressing my opinion, i like to feel that i speak of truth with truth its the only way.




stomasco

stomasco's picture

This is what I hear.... A whole lot of debate over differences of opinion and the insulting of other life styles, beliefs and religons. The fact is that noone on here knows dates for sure and everyo religion everywhere believes that theirs is the only correct one. It is possible to believe in Cnrist and understand that other "beliefs" including Native American beliefs discuss of a child of the "great creator" as well. Who are any of you or anyone else for that matter to crticize someone else's beliefs? For whatever documentation you have someone else has an equal amount of documentation and testament supporting their faith...one thing for sure caling someone else's beliefs "devil worshiping" or something durogatory in nature before you have studied it thoroughly. There are many pagans that believe in God and CHRIST. The thing that makes organized religion ugly is discussions such as this one. It makes people like they are damned for not following the masses or makes people like Katerina have to defend themselves, their opinins and their beliefs. There is one truth....we have one Savior and none of you on here know the entirety ofthat truth or are that savior. God and Christ come to everyone in different ways.....he is God HE IS NOT HELD WITHIN THE CONFINES OF HUMAN BELIEFS. If he so chooses to approach the Natives and Pagans through nature so be it....jewish, protestant, catholic, lutheran, morman, Eastern culture......so be it....we are all fools to say that we believe God and Christ are capable of doing and being anything and then people attempt to trap them within the margins of a book. The testament hasnt stopped just because the printing press has. Katerina's story is another miraculous testament of the Lord as is every other story like hers........that his her truth and we are entitled to take in and see the Lord however he shows himself to us.....perhaps he made it that way for a reason in hopes that we would learn to listen, learn, love and not judge each other despite of it...instead we argue, start wars and breed hatred....how dissapointed he must be.




Norbert Z

Norbert Z's picture

stomasco,

Sure there has been a lot of debate but I don't hear a lot of "insluts" towards other lifestyles. The administrators of this website do fair job of seeing to that. Certainly people can be offended at what they're reading, that is a reaction towards numerous ideas which can be found within the Bible, opinions of them and likewise expressed outside this website. Much like Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." Matt 10:34-35

Also the idea that suggests human beliefs are irrelevant, that there are many ways to the God of Israel does not hold up within the documentation written within the Bible. Here's what Jesus believed about another way to worship God, "You people worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews." John 4:22

The question today is; given the knowledge and truth surrounding the origins of Christmas Day, how should they seek to worship?




Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture


ienstein

ienstein's picture

*Sighs*

...I have come to the realisation that one of the main reason why we christains are finding it hard to win ovr this world and why there is such a great divide between us and the world in terms of communiction is that we have become the "DO NOT" and "DON'T" way of life. It's easy for us to tell people what they SHOULD NOT DO but very diffiult to give pratical real life solutions on what they SHOULD DO. We can give 1001 bible verses condeming one action or the other but when it is time to profer solutions we pass on the responsibility to God, making statements like "The Lord shall grant you understanding".

Sadly, after reading the text and some of the comments above this is again the case. So now we SHOULD NOT CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS and EASTER because...Okay if we should not celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ on christmas day, when SHOULD we celebrate it?

I'm in agreement with katerina here; Yes truthfully and historically 25th of dec was pagan celebration but the fact a date for worshiping the devil was through the power of God, converted into the celebration of the birth of the most powerful, wonderfull and glorious being that ever walked and would ever walk the surface of this planet is enough reason to celebrate. And let us forget the name of the celebration CHRIST-MASS. A name that was not given by the romans but by the church.

One might argue that the origin defines the purpose therefore we shouldn't celebrate it. Well if we are going by that logic, then understand that almost half the Bible shouldn't be read at all; after all 2/3rd of the New Testament was written by a man with an origin of mass murderering of christains(PAUL), Proverbs, Songs of Solomon and Ecclesiastes was from a man with an origin of mass adultery (Solomon), there David(murderer and wife snatcher) writing the book of Psalms and there's the ultimate example, Jesus Christ whose lineage is linked to 2 off the 3 persons listed above including a prostitute!. Do we really want to judge christmas, Easter etc by their origins when the bible says "greater is the end of the matter than the beginning" and "Every man who is in Christ is a new creature, OLD THINGS have passed away behold all things have BECOME NEW".

....




ienstein

ienstein's picture

...
You might also argue that "Jesus did not command us to celebrate his birth" but Jesus also never said anything about buying a car or travelling by an aeroplane but I don't think that has stopped christain from doing it. And seriously if you can take a day out of 365days to celebrate YOUR own birthday, are trying it is wrong to take one day and celebrate JESUS CHRIST birthday.

Finally, I beleive the PURPOSE of action/event should ultimately decide validity of it. So as long as JESUS CHRIST is the purpose I dont see anything wrong with it....

thanks




KARS

KARS's picture

Hi everyone!
Here is my thoughts on this subject. Read Isaiah 44:8-Chp.46. God our LORD spells it out very clearly. Leaving no doubt how He feels about false worship.
Have a good Sabbath everyone.
Shalom!




KARS

KARS's picture

Hi everyone on this 1st day of the week!
If you thought Isaiah chapter 46 was the end of it; think again.
God our LORD had more to say.
Read on through Isaiah chapters 47-48.

Have a good week everyone.




Frank Joseph

Frank Joseph's picture

I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th. I follow the example of God the Father who sent thousands of angels to sing praises concerning the birth of Jesus. So my family and friends sing spiritual songs relating to the birth of Jesus to honor Him. I follow the Biblical example of the Kings who brought Jesus gifts. We give a special offering GIFT to Jesus by purchasing hundreds of New Testament Bibles that go to 3rd world countries. The Gospel of God's Kingdom and the King is the greatest gift we can give to Him by giving it to others. I follow the Biblical example of the shephards who came together and bowed before Jesus on His birthday. My family and friends assemble before Jesus for prayer, worship, and a devotional, to honor Jesus. We don't put up a tree, or exchange presents, or lie to our kids about Santa Claus. We follow Jesus own example of service, giving Him our time and help in a shelter on December 25th, serving food to God's less fortunate children. Does this sound PAGAN? Does this sound like customs of the HEATHEN? Does it even remotely look like ANY of the garbage those ancient people did to honor false gods? When we follow God's example in the Bible, doing and recording what He obviously thought was important on the day His Son was born, who would dare to judge anyone who follows the good examples given in His Word? And BTW.... We also keep the Sabbath and all the Biblical Holydays for the same reason. A true Christian is free in Christ to follow any example given in the Bible without legalistic restraints.




trustgodsword

trustgodsword's picture

A big hello to everyone. I just joined. One positive here is that at least we all have faith in Christ as Saviour and trust in God. I have read all the posts relating to Christmass and Easter etc. and must state that many are placing far too much faith in their own FEELINGS and what they THINK is TRUE. Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. We are to be separate and set an example. For those interested, I have much proof that Christ was born 3BC, Sept. 11. Satan is crafty and chose this date for the Twin Towers disaster also. Satan usually attempts to imitate Christ in many ways. Also, Satan can and does influence our thoughts, even when BORN AGAIN. The Bible states he has blinded and deceived many. Remember when Jesus said to Peter, get behind me Satan. Satan was speaking through Peter here. Don't underestimate the god of this world's power. What protection do YOU have? Why do you think God left us with His word? This is our guide or handbook. He doesn't talk to many today personally, if any. He states himself that we are to refer at all times to the Bible. His Word is the Christians armour. Please don't attempt to justify your actions or beliefs with feelings or thoughts without Biblical evidence. You will be led astray as was Solomon and many others. Also, God is a God of love, but we are to FEAR Him and keep His commandments. This is the whole duty of man. Most today don't. They say, God loves me just the way I am and will always forgive me. Remember,God will not be mocked and yes He will forgive, but only if we place our full trust and faith in Him, not in silly traditions and convenient lifestyles. Why embrace ANYTHING of Satan? Dec. 25th I treat as a normal day. Give Satan an inch and he'll take a foot. Christ was also killed on a Wednesday and rose on God's day...the Saturday Sabbath of course. Read your Bibles and stick with the KJV version. The rest are of Satan also. Need proof of any of the above, please email me. **Email has been removed to comply with comment policy**

Thanks and God bless those who seek His truth from His word and not from feelings. Feelings can come from anywhere. Not safe. Our Creator has guidelines and rules clearly outlined in The Bible. Please follow these and stay on the narrow path leading to Heaven.




KARS

KARS's picture

Thanks TrustGodsWord,
If Jesus wanted us to keep it, the Apostles would have recorded the exact date down in the Word of God (our Holy Bible). It's not about His birthday celebration, it is about His teachings, his service, his love and compassion for his creation and his totally obedience to Abba Father. How he teachings us through the Word of God how to act towards our Father and our neighbor. There is lots to learn and we fight with the human nature in all of us.




HEATHCOACH

HEATHCOACH's picture

I personally find all of the above posts interesting. Everyone above has been trying to uphold what he or she thinks about christmas and easter but not what GOD says about them. Jesus came on earth with a mission from the Father which was to preach the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD. By the time Jesus ascended back to the Father who sent Him, He left us a mission to go into the whole world and preach the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
We are to preach about Jesus and the Gospel. Knowing Jesus is believing in Him which means following everything He said and did. Nothing more. Jesus said, "I AM THE GOOD SHEPARD AND MY SHEEP KNOW ME AND FOLLOW ME". Instead of debating on man made traditions and whether we observe them focusing on Jesus Christ or on the pagan traditions, we should be questioning ourselves whether we are part of that sheep that knows Jesus Christ, believe in Him and does what He says and did. We should not forget that the Bibles clearly says there are many gods and many Jesus. The question is which of them are we following? All the answers will come from the WORD WHICH OF COURSE IS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. Yes, Jesus came for sinners and not for the righteous but to follow Him and believe in Him means to get out of the world and its traditions. Do not paint Him with the traditions of the world which He Himself did not. We should ask ourselves this question, which Jesus observed the tradition which I am observing and know whether it is the Jesus Christ of the Bible or the Jesus of the world. God bless your search for the truth.




HEATHCOACH

HEATHCOACH's picture

Just to add to what I just posted above, the Bible says, "husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church....". Each christian is considered a virgin waiting to be wedded with Christ at His second coming. Celebrating traditional feasts like christmas and easter as a christian while focusing on Christ and believing in Him is like a virgin committing fornication with another man while during that time focusing on her fiance. How would you feel if the person you so much love tells you "I committed this sin with you in mind?"
One thing people forget is that Jesus Christ appeared several times in different forms in the Old Testament and in human form in the New Testament. He was in the form of cloud, pillar of fire, rock, burning bush and human flesh. Why do we want to attach a date to one of the forms and not the others? The only date and feast He asked us to keep in remembrance of Him, was "PASSOVER" because he was dying to end His first marriage with Israel and be fianced with those who believe in Him and follow Him by getting out of the world through repentance and keeping to everything He said and did. It is not focusing on Him and believing in Him without following His footsteps. Still ask yourself which christ am I following? God will guide all of us in the search for the truth.




tuck

tuck's picture

I'll tell everyone what I tell my kids. You shouldn't place a man-made holiday ahead of a GOD commanded holy-day. For example X-mas should not take presidence over Atonement or Passover. When you do that you break commandment #1. The same can be said about the 7th day sabbath there are things you can & can not do on GODs sabbath but when you allow these things to over-ride going to church, or keeping the day "HOLY", you break the 1st & 4th commandment.




keishadubose1

keishadubose1's picture

Hello everyone
Keisha Dubose(New)
I added myself to this page just to say this, don't none of us know the truth of nothing unless you lived within the truth itself. Don't none of us know what actually happened, who really wrote what you are reading or researched so how can you tell someone anything. Who knows who is actally living the truth or who actually living a lie? So if you don't know the real truth stop condemning others on living a lie because you may be reading the wrong info that "Man" may have wrote or revised for their own satisfaction. Why not just be patient enough to wait on the real truth because honestly we are living in an very opinionated, corrupted world which doesn't know anything but to debate on assumptions so be glad that you are alive and stop all this nonsense and drama because we are all wrong...
Thanks




jennifer 26

jennifer 26's picture

I don't celebrate Christmas, Halloween, Valentine's or Easter. As a child my dad didn't see a problem but as I grew up I wanted to know more and did my own research. I made the choice to stop and others I know continue. If you read the bible and hear from a real christian pastor, nowhere in the bible does it say to celebrate these man made converted into christian holidays. It's sad when the bible tells preachers to preach the truth and not to add or subtract yet they tell their followers it's ok to celebrate the "birth of Jesus" on Dec 25. It's a Satan filled lie and millions have followed sadly. For those saying it doesn't matter the day you are wrong. We are born on a specific day and choose to celebrate it. The bible doesn't give us a specific day so why make one up or take it from a pagan god and insert Christ and call it Christmas. For some reason Jesus doesn't want us to celebrate his birthday otherwise it would be in there. We have holy days that quite frankly the church has failed to teach. I would love to worship on these days but it's hard to find a true christian church that celebrates the holy days and not the holidays they celebrate. The best way to honor him is to keep his commandments, and though we fall short, his grace and mercy allows those we have followed the holidays to learn his truths and turn away from the lies the devil gets you to think is true worship.




thebrother

thebrother's picture

Greetings. This is one of the platform to use to share and teach the word.

Firstly I want to know what compels christians want to have a specific day to honour the birth of Christ.
As for the Holy days the Bible always reminds us to remember them. Even in the new testament, there is nowhere it tells that Xmas was observed.

Lastly, I would like us to go to Deut 29:29. God has a reason, known to him, why the birth date of Christ is not recorded in the Scripture.
God bless!




thebrother

thebrother's picture

And we should not do things because we think/feel that they are right, but do things because the Lord, God, has commanded us.




XCG Friend

XCG Friend's picture

Why Christmas? For most people, Christmas is not a religious holiday. It is a secular holiday with some religious overtones, much like Thanksgiving. Like Halloween, Christmas originates in pre-Christian end-of-year festivals. If you have ever watched a garden that you have labored over painstakingly for months die away, you can begin to grasp something of what ancient humans probably felt as the year waned. At the same time, winter was a time of respite from the labors of the longer, warmer months. It is every bit as "valid" a holiday as the Fourth of July--a time to take a break from summer's labor and celebrate death--the death of the old year and all its cares.

Likewise, the winter holiday centers on the solstice, the time when the days begin to lengthen again, and hope for a new spring quickens. There is no reason why people should not have celebrations centered on the four wonderful seasons. We bring flowers into our houses in spring, and decorate our doors with Indian corn in fall. Why should we not bring evergreens into our homes in winter?

It is also very appropriate to acknowledge God in all of our celebrations. So we thank God for our country on the Fourth of July and on Thanksgiving. And we now (out of tradition) think of Jesus Christ at Christmas. But Jesus is not (and never was) the reason for the Christmas season. Christmas is a seasonal holiday handed down to us from antiquity. But that it is a man's holiday doesn't necessarily mean inculcating worship into the celebration is verboten. We should glorify God in everything and give thanks at all times, not least in our celebrations.

It is not wrong to rejoice that Christ was born (the angels did) or to acknowledge that event during a winter celebration. Obsessing over the pre-Christian origins of our manifold traditions is silly. Nobody worships Christmas trees or offers sacrifices to pagan gods on Christmas or even thinks of pagan gods on that day.

Dr. Seuss had it right. Christmas haters really need to examine themselves and see if maybe their heart isn't two sizes too small. There's a lot of great things about Christmas that some overlook through focusing on the wrong things. Giving. Family togetherness. Feasting. Joy to the world. Peace on earth. Goodwill toward men.




ubrana

ubrana's picture

In all this...all I see is "law, commandments". What about relationship with God? Through relationship, revelation comes to us and truth starts making its way to our hearts. You don't have a relationship by law...you have a relationship by relating to the person (in this case, God) that you are engaging with. You become intimate and grow as a relationship. You tell each other your secrets and talk and joke with each other. That's what Jesus was teaching us. Relationship and submission to the Father. And through grace, the veil was rent, we no longer need to follow all this protocol.

It doesn't matter who celebrates what and when. When you have a true relationship with God, you walk in the freedom of knowing that if you have the faith, then it doesn't matter. It's like the Word teaches us...if we believe we are saved; not if we do or do not. If you believe in God and you love him...you won't do things that you don't need to do that can harm your mind, body, spirit.

Enough of the protocol...let the spirit work on the individuals at their pace. Remember God is creative...we are all different...not robots. The two commandments that apply to us are 1) love God above all things, 2) love your neighbor as yourself.

This is the root of our faith. Why condemn those that don't share the same beliefs or practices? Instead, why not pray that they receive the revelation God wants them to receive to get a closer relationship...regardless of the specific days, holidays, etc.

I celebrate his resurrection everyday. He rose...end of story. I celebrate his birth every day...he came...when I look at people and all the beauty in this world...I glorify him. Worship isn't following the commandments. Worship is a lifestyle of gratitude and love for God. It's taking in all the wonderful things this great Being has done for us...even if it's a simple holiday (pagan or not) that has become a means that families come together to show their love and giving to each other. If God doesn't want you to celebrate it...then fine...don't.

But the ones that do...enjoy it, enjoy your families, enjoy the moment...trust me...God will not strike you down for celebrating something that you believe to be reason for celebration.




jodacien D

jodacien D's picture

no one know when Jesus was born and the exactly date




Sabrina Peabody

Sabrina Peabody's picture

Hi ubrana,
"If you believe in God and you love him...you won't do things that you don't need to do that can harm your mind, body, spirit."

Can we replace what we believe is okay with what God tells us? He told us not to worship Him as the heathen and it is clear from the roots of Christmas that Christianity is using pagan practices to worship God. God tells us what will benefit or harm our mind, body and especially spirit. He tells us not to worship Him in this way so perhaps we need to consider how this can affect us spiritually?

"Why condemn those that don't share the same beliefs or practices? Instead, why not pray that they receive the revelation God ..."

I don't think the purpose of this article is to condemn but to tell the truth of God based on biblical principles. It is up to others to decide if this is something they will follow or not. Also, I believe God's people are praying and hope that all have a closer relationship with Him. He does also give specific days that are HIS Holy Days and feasts that He wants us to keep. They reflect the plan of God/the plan of salvation.

That is wonderful that you are celebrating Christ's resurrection and birth day every day in the respect that you are thankful for Christ's life! I too am so overjoyed that He loved us as much as He does to sacrifice His life. I think His resurrection shows God's awesome power and it gives me hope that God will also resurrect me when it is time. The Bible tell us we are to celebrate His death (as some above have mentioned), for by His death, we are justified to God (1 Corinthians 11:23-28).

I would like to agree with you that God will not strike us down if we are ignorant in how to worship Him in the way He tells us. He has great mercy and it is Him who calls us to the truth however I would consider Exodus 32 when the people made the golden calf idol to worship instead of putting their faith in God. God despises idols especially when people put their faith in them instead of Him. Some would argue that children have more faith in Santa giving them gifts than in the blessings God can give them. How could parents encourage their children to have faith in a lie?

There is just too much with Christmas that does not lead to good and ultimately the verse in Deut. 12:30-31 is what convicts me that it should not be celebrated.
"You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"




nathanalbright

nathanalbright's picture

Urbana, there are some difficulties in your own view when it is compared with the biblical perspective. For one, God is very specific in when and how he wants to be worshiped by believers (see Genesis 2:1-3, Leviticus 23, 25, and this is equally true of Christians today--Hebrews 4:9, 10:25-26, 1 Corinthians 14:40). So, while we are certainly right to praise God and pray to God and study God's words every day, it matters greatly which days we keep as commanded assemblies to make sure that we obey the commandments of God rather than the traditions of man.

Additionally, while you may care little for the origin of a festival you and your family happen to enjoy, the Bible cares deeply about the avoidance of heathen practices, regardless of what name is attached to them (Exodus 32, Deuteronomy 13, 18:9-14, Jeremiah 10). If we claim to honor God by keeping alive the customs of the heathen, we are not honoring God but rather insulting Him. No one should want to do that. Therefore let us amend our own conduct so that it is in accordance to the clear biblical commands that God has given to us throughout His scriptures.




ubrana

ubrana's picture

Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Christ is freedom...the veil was broken. The veil represents the law. The Spirit was sent. The spirit is freedom. Christ came to break the yokes of the law. Relax and enjoy the ride....




Skip

Skip's picture

Hello ubrana,
You know, you could be right. It does sound like "law, commandments" and do you know why? Because some of us feel that in order to have a real, & honest, deeply meaningful relationship with our God & creator we need to do not just do what WE think is right & pleasant but actually do what God in HIS Word says should be done.

The world may say "all you need is love" but until it is put it into a correct type of relationship all you get is lust.




cj

cj's picture

@

Katerina,
Wow, just one comment:
I'm with you Katerina, I do the best I can and hope by grace my worship will be acceptable.
cj




Mayhenry

Mayhenry's picture

Wow, this is why Jesus died on the cross for our wrong doings.




johnnylove

johnnylove's picture

to katerina
yes your faith and intention is very important
matthew 12 1-8
your intentions may be good but december 25 and easter are based off of a pagan religion called mithraism which to some is considered satans way of infilitrating true christianity




Antipodean

Antipodean's picture

I'd like to return to the original question, as I have a suggestion that might help people to find the answer themselves.

However, first I'd like to say that the point of celebrating Christmas is not to try to celebrate the anniversary of our Savior's birth, but to celebrate the fact that our Savior was born. The exact date of his birth, while interesting in an academic sense, is entirely beside the point.

Now, to answer the question: the clues you need are in the Bible, but you will need to read it in a way you might not have considered before. In the Book of Revelation, there is a reference to a woman, heavy with child, and in the pangs of labor; she is clothed in the sun, and has the moon at her feet. THAT is your critical clue... the reference to the woman, the sun and the moon is not the usual visionary metaphor that John of Patmos uses in the rest of his writings. He is, for once, entirely lucid, and is speaking quite literally... the sun is literally the sun, the moon is literally the moon, and the pregnant woman is the Virgin who is about to give birth.
Where will you find the sun, the moon, and a Virgin? In the sky.

The Virgin is a translation of the word Virgo, and it is the location for a remarkable exploration of both science and faith.

If the woman is "clothed in the sun", the sun is sitting in the box of stars that form the torso of Virgo. This occurs on or around the 15th of September. (This makes sense when one considers that shepherds in Judea never had their sheep in the fields at night in December, but would in September when the temperatures at night won't cause hypothermia)

Using basic astronomy software, you can focus on the constellation of Virgo, and toy around with a range of years from 10BC through to AD 2) and pay attention to the position of the Moon. This will give you the year. Also pay attention to the position of the planets... It provides some insight into the "New Star" of the gospel accounts. These things too add to how remarkable all of this is.

The movement of the planets have been running as regular as clockwork since the solar system came into being (before man first appears) and for a birth prophesied centuries beforehand to so exactly coincide with rare celestial events is beyond coincidental, and is deep into the realm of having been planned from the beginning




Sabrina Peabody

Sabrina Peabody's picture

Hi Antipodean,
That is an interesting study to do on the stars and celestial events. It is critical for us to believe that Christ was born, lived a perfect life and died for our sins. It is a glorious thing that He was born, but He did not say in His Word that we should worship Him by celebrating His birth. Not celebrating His birth by keeping a holiday created from pagan origins does not downplay this miracle in any way. There are many helpful comments above that if you are reading God's Word and truly looking for His will (and not what we would will ourselves--yes, very hard to do!) you will see what He clearly teaches us to do.




Angelia

Angelia's picture

Is it truly important what day "Jesus" was born? What's important to remember is his "LOVE" for us, his coming to a world full of sin and dying for us all. So what, it's a man made holiday to celebrate his birth. If you know in your heart what your celebrating it for, than so be it. Who are we to judge others because they put up trees, lights and other decorations to show their love for him. And why is it that if a person does not have the same belief as another brother or sister, he or she is considered to be celebrating pagans. We should not try and force anyone to believe but to tell them of "Jesus" unselfish love and why he came and died for us.. Lets not allow satan to divide and deceive us on something so simple. Bottom line is to know Jesus and his father The Lord of all the heavens and earth and to keep his commandments, in faith that you will one day see his face. Now, let us go and remember him with friends and family during this season together.

May His Peace be with us all :-).




dtacha

dtacha's picture

No matter what we say or write or what our beliefs are, Christmas, Easter and Halloween are traditional holidays which permeate our culture and are here to stay whether we like it or not. We can we can try to keep Christmas Christ centered; however the holiday has become extremely materialistic and secular, and most of what we see is a vague shadow of who Jesus was, and is, and is to come.
Personally, I do not like celebrating Christmas in a church setting. Santa Claus did not die on a crucifix for my sins---and for the first 200-300 years, the early Christians never celebrated Christmas or Easter and that group turned the world upside down!
As far as other peoples comments about celebrating or not celebrating the Hebrew holidays, in Matthew:5:17, Jesus said “do not think I have not come to abolish the law (Torah) or prophets, but to fulfill.” I see no place in scripture where we cannot celebrate the Hebrew holidays such as Day of Atonement (Jesus sacrifice for all mankind); or celebrating Passover (Christ is our Passover) which Jesus and His disciples and apostles frequently practice in the New Testament.

I certainly would prefer to celebrate the Hebrew holidays, which are Christ centered, than celebrate demon holidays based on pagan religions and folklore. At least Hanuka is at least not based on a pagan holiday.

Why I am at it, Easter, sun rise services and Easter egg hunts should never replace Resurrection Day. It grieves me when I hear the pastor say Happy Easter (fertility goddess) on the day we celebrate Christ's resurrection.




G6LAV

G6LAV's picture

I came across this discourse and read it with interest but it seems the obvious is always carefully overlooked. All these concepts are man made and many myths legends and doctrines imposed, in the past often with violence. There is no necessity to believe in a myth that an ordinary but in some ways exceptional human being was God or that he resurrected, there was no need to make it up. Just a simple basic belief in God without the silly man made trimmings. That is all that is needed. It seems fairly obvious that our forbears imposed on people what they wanted them to believe, did so a long time after Jesus will have died to try and make him into something he wasn't and today some still pursue these concepts. No need for it.




dziwczyna

dziwczyna's picture

@Angelia

It absolutely does matter how we worship our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as He told us (because He was the Word and no one has heard the voice of the Father) in Deut. 12:30-31:

"take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them [Gentile nations], after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'

"You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way..."

And in Mark:7:9, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."

God's festivals are in Lev 23! They are not the Jewish festivals, as if you read the opening "...these are My feasts." You can also read further passages about the Holy Days, in which the LORD states that they are to be kept by the native Israelites and strangers alike.

Loving God as you said means "keeping His commandments" (1 John:5:2).

The creator of the universe has the right, power, and authority to have His own festivals (in Lev. 23) worshipped, but instead men reject His festivals to keep festivals of demons--because lets face it, the gods of the pagans were demons!

We as the UCG celebrate Christ's "LOVE" for us, by keeping the Passover as an annual reminder of His sacrifice and atonement for our sins.

I would recommend for you to read these UCG booklets:

Holidays or Holy Days
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da...

and

God's Holy Day Plan
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/gods-holy-day-plan-promise-hope-all-mankind/

God's Holy Days are symbolic of His plan of salvation for all of mankind!




ramsay

ramsay's picture

This is all very interesting.
It just amazes me how people can be so adamant and resolute.
I applaud you and yours.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems to be that you are advocating abandoning the celebration of Christmas and Easter? As they are related to pagan traditions? And in direct violation of how God wants to be worshipped (as indicated in the scriptures)?




Malachi 3_16-18

Malachi 3_16-18's picture

Hi Ramsay,

We must be adamant and resolute in following God, but only as He shows us from His Word. So we should abandon the celebration of Christmas and Easter if we learn they have pagan origins, but observe them if they are festivals commanded by Him. The point is, if and when there is a conflict, to obey God rather than man (Acts:5:29, Mark:7:6-9, Amos:5:21, Deut 12:29-32).

For much more detail about the Biblical approach to both Christmas and Easter, please check out ucg.org’s booklet online, “Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Observe?”




TLBauer3617

TLBauer3617's picture

Matthew:7:21-23, from the One who laid down the rules ...

You see, what YOU think is right or wrong doesn't matter to Him. He establishes the standard! You can worship Him any way you want; keep any days you want; tend the sick; feed the hungry; clothe the poor ..
and do many wonderful works IN HIS NAME!

But be warned! He is the judge of what He will and will not accept as worthy of true and faithful worship! He set the example. Is that the way you live your life? Do you worship Him according to the times and seasons He set down in His word? Or, do you, without question, worship Him according to the commands and traditions of men?

Was it not Christ who said of those in His day: "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commands of men." Does not the world continue this practice today with Christmas and Easter?

It is this vain worship - even though it may be done in all sincerity - which will lead to those fateful words from Christ: "I do not know you!"

Again, he does not look to what or how you want to do things, but rather whether you are willing to do what He asks you to do.

Every human being must come to a point where they determine to reject Satan and his "my way or the highway" way of doing things and must come to realize and to accept God's sovereignty in every aspect of their lives!

Should we not diligently study the Word of God determined to live by every one of them (as He asks us to do), rather than to stubbornly cling to traditions of honoring Him that are NOT found there?




ramsay

ramsay's picture

Does it really matter if they have pagan origins? Does it really matter that thousands of years ago some group of people who do not know God celebrated something during a certain time of year? And the early Christians wanted to appease those groups of people by having the celebrations coincide?

Can someone point me the passage where God tells us to shun these pagan traditions? Because if I just follow your advices, then I am just following man and not God.




Malachi 3_16-18

Malachi 3_16-18's picture

Hi again Ramsay,

Yes, as I posted on Jan 7, we ought to obey God rather than man (Acts:5:29). It's not wrong, though, to follow what humans say if those words are in harmony with what our Creator teaches (1 Cor:11:1).

So what does God say?

Deut 12:29-32 Don’t copy the pagan practices of those around you.

Amos:5:21 God hates false religion.

Jn:4:23-24 We must worship God in spirit and truth.

Mk 7:6-9 Don’t follow empty traditions of men, and in doing so, reject God’s commandments.

God has listed some Feast Days in His Word which were not only observed in Old Testament times (Lev 23) but were also kept by Jesus and His followers in the New Testament (Acts:2:1; 1 Cor:5:6-8), and which true Christians observe today.

For more info. on these days, please refer to the booklet I mentioned in my earlier comment on Jan 7, at this link:

www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-days-we-o...




Ivan Veller

Ivan Veller's picture

Hi Ramsay,

Does it matter to God?

"Part of God's instructions [through Moses] included an explicit warning against incorporating pagan customs into [our] worship...

["(Moses:) These are the regulations and judgments you must carefully obey...for as long as you are alive...

The Eternal your God doesn’t want you to worship Him in the way these nations worshiped their gods...

When the Eternal your God has destroyed the nations whose land you’re going to occupy, when you’ve displaced them and settled there, then be very careful! Don’t fall into a (deadly) trap by doing what those nations did, since they were destroyed when you came into their land! Don’t try to find out about their gods. Don’t ask, 'How did these nations worship their gods? I’m going to do the same thing!'

Don’t worship the Eternal your God the way those nations worshiped their gods!

They did every horrible thing He hates...Be very careful to do everything I’m commanding you.

Don’t add anything to your worship, and don’t take anything away from it'"

(Deuteronomy:12:4, 29-32, Voice 2012; as cited earlier by Steven Britt)]: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da...




KARS

KARS's picture

Hi Ramsey as Mr. Vellar and Malachi state above please order the free booklet to understand better. Here is another reference you may want to read;Isaiah Chapter 44. This chapter is a eye opener to go along with the booklet. http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da ...




tawandazata

tawandazata's picture

i just read your article just now and am now confused as to what really is the truth about Jesus`s exact date or month of birth. I was reading through varius articles on this topic and i would really appreciate if you could assist me with the following questions;
1. the exact date or month is not known rather it is based on assumptions, the calendar that we are using today is not the same calender that was used during the time Jesus was born. Can you please explain why you have chosen early October as the month that Jesus was born.Maybe provide the link between the old 9 months calender and the current 12 months calender.




United Church of God

United Church of God's picture

Hi Tawandazata,

It is true that the exact month of Jesus Christ’s birth can’t be corroborated by the scriptures. However, it is also true that the scriptures do point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus’ birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist. Our study aid “Holidays or Holidays: Does It Matter Which Days We Observe?” (http://www.ucg.org/booklet/holidays-or-holy-days-does-it-matter-which-da... ) gives the biblical basis for this thinking. This view is based on the scriptures not assumptions.
The calendar that was used during Jesus time was the Julian calendar. Note the following. “From the Romans also came another Christmas fundamental: the date, December 25. When the Julian calendar was proclaimed in 46 C.E. [A.D.], it set into law a practice that was already common: dating the winter solstice as December 25. Later reforms of the calendar would cause the astronomical solstice to migrate to December 21, but the older date’s irresistible resonance would remain” (Tom Flynn, The Trouble With Christmas, 1993, p. 42).

Here is why the Romans selected December 25 as a special religious day. “The tradition of celebrating December 25 as Christ’s birthday came to the Romans from Persia. Mithra, the Persian god of light and sacred contracts, was born out of a rock on December 25. Rome was famous for its flirtations with strange gods and cults, and in the third century the unchristian emperor Aurelian established the festival of Dies Invicti Solis, the Day of the Invincible Sun, on December 25.

“Mithra was an embodiment of the sun, so this period of its rebirth was a major day in Mithraism, which had become Rome’s latest official religion... It is believed that the emperor Constantine adhered to Mithraism up to the time of his conversion to Christianity. He was probably instrumental in seeing that the major feast of his old religion was carried over to his new faith” (The Christmas Almanac, 1979, p. 17).




GalDriver

GalDriver's picture

I came here looking for an actual date for Christ's birth and found this quote amongst the information:

"Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, 'the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism'" so it was propaganda to get Pagan's to convert?

I'm horrified. ....and makes me wonder how much of what we here from history can be believed at face value. Hmmm



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