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Inside United Podcast #093: Steven Britt - Sound Science and the Bible, Part 3

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Inside United Podcast #093

Steven Britt - Sound Science and the Bible, Part 3

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Inside United Podcast #093: Steven Britt - Sound Science and the Bible, Part 3

MP3 Audio (15.35 MB)
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Inside United Podcast #093: Steven Britt - Sound Science and the Bible, Part 3 by United Church of God

Steven Britt and Victor Kubik continue their discussion of science and the Bible through the topic of astronomy and the origin of the Earth and life as described in Genesis.

Comments

  • Peter John Hutchison
    I think I have posted enough information to show that the UCG narrative of the creation has many problems. There are many more problems that could be addressed. Thanks to the Bloggers for allowing me to participate. I did make a submission to the Doctrinal Committee, however it was summarily dismissed. The advantage of the Blog system is that it does give members opportunities to discuss difficult matters in a disciplined environment. Hopefully the authors of this Blog will consider the comments I have posted and take them on board. Perhaps even they might open a new look at the creation story. It is a difficult topic as mainstream science promotes a history in direct opposition to the Moses history. Nevertheless, God’s Word is where all truth lies.
  • Peter John Hutchison
    Riddles and Parables. When God spoke to His prophets it was in riddles that needed an interpreter, e.g. Genesis 41. And Christ spoke to the people in parables so that they would not understand, e.g. Mark 10:4-11. However when God spoke to Moses it was not in riddles. Numbers 12:6 Then He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings;…. Moses wrote the Book of Genesis under God’s instruction. Should we not expect it to be written “plainly” and not in riddles? An unfortunate criticism of the preferred narrative of UCG converts Genesis 1 into a big riddle that even when one tries to read Genesis 1 as a “re-creation” it simply just does not fit.
  • Peter John Hutchison
    The Circular Argument of Ezekiel 28:17. (KJV) Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. The word translated in the KJV as “will cast” is H7993 shâlak; A primitive root; to throw out, down. In the NKJV it is translated as “cast”. The question is what tense is to be used or imputed, past, present or future. If we turn to Ezekiel 3:24 in the NKJV H7993 is translated in the future tense as “shall throw”. So from the Hebrew H7993 the translator needs to use the context of the passage to determine which tense should be used. UCG tends to rely on the NKJV. Now the tense can be chosen to achieve a desired outcome. If the translator or reader has pre-decided that Satan was cast out long ago, then the past tense is chosen and vice versa for a cast down in the future. So we have a circular argument and the use of Ezekiel 28:17 to PROVE a pre-Adamic casting down is not valid as the tense of the event is chosen to suit the argument. Cross reference with John 12:31 would show that a future tense is required.
  • Peter John Hutchison
    In order for the OEC-Re-Creation narrative to be accepted, the re-creation needs to be consistent with all of Genesis 1. As an example, let us consider Day 5 (Genesis 1:21-23). Here God’s Word says that great whales were created. The Hebrew word translated as whale is the same Hebrew word that is translated as dragon in other parts of the Bible; and in the OT the word dragon is not used to refer to anything other than large animals or sea creatures. These were gigantic creatures. The word dinosaur had not yet been coined and it replaced the usage of the word dragon in the 19th century. Behemoth and Leviathan are described in detail in Job 40 &41. These are enormous creatures. In Psalm 74 Leviathan is food and in Psalm 104 is swimming with ships. Furthermore, there is not one verse in the Bible that states that any living breathing creature existed prior to Genesis 1:21.Taking this into account, the fossil record is explainable as the result of Noah’s flood. Consideration of each day of Genesis 1 will show incompatibility with the OEC-Re-Creation narrative. God’s Word concludes the history with Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
  • Peter John Hutchison
    God, having proclaimed that the Universe was completed (Gen 2:1) says Gen 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in CREATION. Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were CREATED, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Is not the Sabbath the 7th Day of The Creation? Furthermore I note: Mat_19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, Mar_10:6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' Does this not put the creation of the universe and man at the same time? Peter Hutchison, Sydney Australia
  • Peter John Hutchison
    As a simple minded person I asked myself why God didn’t simply get rid of Satan when he led Adam and Eve astray in the Garden of Eden. Problem solved. But God would not do that because throughout scripture, He insists that He is righteous, just and impartial. All judgements must be consistent. Whatever judgement He applies must apply to all. If He had banished Satan for any sin then (or prior), He would also have to banish Adam as both partook of the same sin. So the great plan of God began. Christ’s sacrifice was a ransom paid for all mankind (Mark 10:45). Immediately before His crucifixion Christ said Joh_12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Christ’s sacrifice released the connection of man and Satan in respect of sin. Satan Can now be cast out and not before then. If Satan was cast out before the ransom was paid, then mankind would also have to suffer the same punishment and never been able to enter the Kingdom of God.
  • Peter John Hutchison
    The inconsistency between Day 2 of the Genesis account of creation and the OEC / Re-Creation narrative is but one of the discrepancies that exist. Knowledge of Science and history develops by uncovering of additional facts and/or aligning existing those facts to the narrative of the day. If the newly discovered facts cannot be fitted to the narrative then the narrative is discarded. The event recorded for Day 2, according to the Word of God, is that the expanse of the universe was created on Day 2. It did not exist at the end of Day 1. Yet this is the primary premise of the OEC narrative. That being the case, the OEC / Re-Creation narrative has a significant problem that must be addressed. Peter hutchison
  • Peter John Hutchison
    Gntlemen, I wrote a comment that is too long to post here so I will send it as an email seperately and leave it to you whether to post my comments in full or not. In the meantime you might consider the following vesres Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Talking of Moses: Num_12:8 With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD. Is not Genesis 1 very clear? Immediately prior to His crucfixion Christ said Joh_12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. Mar_10:6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' Also, if the Universe was created billions of years ago then the space of the Universe would exist. Unless Satan is capable of undoing creation, then the question is this: On Day 2 God created the firmament (expanse of the universe) and named it Heaven. If it already existed how is this verse consistent with your proposition of a ‘re-creation’? Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this Blog. Peter Hutchison Sydney Australia
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