Who Was Jesus before Human Birth?

Well, happy Sabbath, everybody! Good to see you all. It's been a long while. I think the last time that Jonah and I were up here about four years ago. So it goes back a ways that we were able to visit, but you weren't here the last time. I forget where you were meeting. You know, I know it was certainly definitely a different location. Of course, we're up here for a little wedding that's going to take place on Monday. You know, we're very excited for Jonathan and Sarah. It'll be nice to, frankly, to marry off the last Bambino. You know, last son. And I guess hopefully after that my expenses are supposed to go down. Is that... Or does it go up with more grandkids? Now, we have six grand sons right now, so... And I know that that Joan would like to have a granddaughter, you know, and I wouldn't mind it. I come from a family with six boys and three girls. So we did have girls in the family, but they were not a majority. You know, the men ruled. You know, the roost pretty much in the house. But, of course, we loved our sisters a great deal. We are taking care of a number of things. We are pastoring, taking care of Phoenix.

We also have Northern Arizona. We have Sholo, which you probably haven't heard much about. Sholo is just a little community. We have about seven or eight people up there, so it's not very big. I don't get to go up there. I think the last time we were up there was back maybe in March. So it's been a long time. And I just got an email from one of the deacons up there asking us to come up and to visit them.

We also are taking care of Hawaii. You know, somebody's got to do it. So we continue to do that. We have about 15 people over in Hawaii on three islands. And it's kind of hard sometimes. You know, we go over there. You got to hop islands to visit everybody and to get around to see everyone. And you may have heard that I was given the responsibility of Camp High Sierra, which was a total shock.

I guess I'm the, you know, Joan and I are the youth movement of the church. You know, we never realized we were, you know, so young. And, you know, that being the case, you ought to have Mr. Walden here come up, come down to the camp, because I think we're about the same age or so. I know he doesn't look like he's as old as I am, but anyway, I'm just giving him a hard time, because he's always giving me a hard time.

Good to see the Dunlaps here. It's been a long time since we've seen them. And, you know, I've certainly known them for many years. I could tell you some stories about 95 and 94, but we won't get into that. Those stories back then. And also, they've asked me to be the regional pastor, which I've been doing that for maybe a year and a half or two now. And, you know, we just keep doing what we can do to help in whatever way we can.

So, and we are hoping that, you know, we'll be able to have somebody come and take the camp that's a little younger by maybe another year or so, that we'll be able to do that. But it's been pretty exciting and really wonderful this year, by the way, to have Mr. and Mrs. Horchak down at the camp, working with the youth down there. They were a big help down there.

You know, I know Joe took care of speed away, and Jackie had volleyball. Let's see, I think he had bubble ball. And you had something else as well, but everybody does has to do three or four or five jobs. So it's kind of hard for me to remember all the jobs everybody's doing. But we all pitched in and made it work. And it is true that miracles can happen.

You know, even when we were really not prepared to take the role, after the evaluations came in from the young people, I would say 99 percent of them thought it was the most wonderful camp they'd ever been to. They were just elated with a camp. So it turned out very well, and we were very, very blessed in every sense of the word. But again, it's good to be up here with all of you. I know all of us have been watching and looking at this hurricane Harvey damage that was done down there.

I saw a little bit of it this morning on Fox News, and it's just a devastation. In Houston alone, I understand they had 156,000 homes damaged in Houston alone. And you know, you have streets where you've got to have a boat to get to your house, I guess. And most people are just simply not there. I've moved out to higher ground.

They're showing pictures of Galveston and Corpus Christi, which are, again, there's so much devastation. And probably the cost is going to be, it will go over what probably Katrina was. Another thing I thought was very impressive was I saw President Trump was down there. Sort of the hands-on type of a president, you know, stopping, talking to people.

He was very, very much engaged. And you know, when everything happened, he really got on on it right away. He was right involved from the get-go. He didn't wait one day before he was heading down to to Texas to look into it. So it's good to see that kind of a hands-on involvement of the President of the United States. But I wanted to talk to you about this particular subject. You know, we are warned that in the end time, that there would be much skepticism and doubt in the world. And I think we'd all agree there's a lot of it, isn't there?

That many people doubt what this book that you have in your lap or, you know, whatever, however you're looking at the Bible says, they're skeptical about many of the things that are in it. And also the Bible warns us that there would be many would come deceiving, and there would be many who will be deceived. And many books have been written, in fact, to challenge one major belief that all of us, I think, hold as sacred.

And that is that Jesus Christ was divine. There are a lot of books that actually are written to try to show that Jesus was not God. And, you know, in fact, John, the apostle, says this, he said, little children, it is the last time. Of course, this was what was it, 90 AD or so when John wrote these things. And he says, as you've heard, it says that the antichrist shall come. And he faced it right in the first century of the church, those who were against Christ.

And he said, even now are there many antichrists? Now, we know that there in the end of the age, there's going to be an antichrist that's going to come. But John was saying, look, there are antichrists now. In the 180 AD, there were people that were against Christ. And then he says, whereby we know it is the last time. You know, when it talks about antichrist of the Bible, antichrist merely means against Christ. That's all it means. And so any belief, brethren, that lessens the value of Jesus Christ coming to provide His great sacrifice for all of human beings ever living upon this planet, from Adam until the present day and on to the future.

Any idea, any doctrine, any teaching that wars against that idea of who Christ is, you know, is antichrist. It is against Christ. And there are many people that have ideas that, frankly, are against Christ. A number of years, a number of people were upset with the church, basically, saying, we talk about Jesus Christ too much. How many of you remember that, by the way, in the church when we we've talked about that? Well, of course, in the church we we have emphasized the Father. And as well we should, because of the reasons, what I'm going to talk about, you know, here in the remainder of this sermon.

The question is, brethren, who or what was Jesus before His human birth? That's a question I had to answer before I came into the church. Who was Jesus? Who was this person who called Himself Jesus? And the question, the big question, many of you remember, the old booklet we had, is Jesus God? Is Jesus God? That was a very important question to answer. You know how all of us have this idea, or at least many, I should say, all of us, and be generalized about that? But many have had the idea that the Father was the God of the Old Testament, and that Jesus was the God of the New Testament.

Now, how many of you went to church that believed that? I know I did. That was a common belief. Many churches believe that. And when I was like 16, 17 years old, and coming to the church, I believe that, yeah, that cruel God was the God of the Old Testament. And one of the greatest revelations that I ever had when I came to the church was to find out about who Jesus was, and that in fact, Jesus in fact is God and was God. In fact, His name, one of His names, Emmanuel, means God with us, God with us.

Well, let's let's notice in John chapter 1 here, let's talk about this because, you know, we have had—I'm just going to be open about it—we have had some issues with this that have come up in the church in general. I'm not talking about here. I'm not talking about anywhere else.

In particular, I'm saying in general, that we've had some that have had a question about whether Jesus is God. And, you know, there are people who do believe that Jesus Christ was basically a well-intentioned prophet. You know, the Jews believe that, that Jesus is a prophet. Maybe at most, He was a prophet. But let's go to John chapter 1.

John chapter 1 and verse 1, it says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And so, this is two beings, right? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And it says the Word was God. So that clearly says that the Word, whatever the Word was, was God also.

So you have two God beings, as it were, that verse 1 talks about here. And it says, He was in the beginning with God. He had a special relationship with God. He Himself was God. And all things were made through Him, that is by the Word. And without Him, nothing was made that was made. And we need to understand that totally, that without the Word, whoever the Word is, and the Bible here tells us who it is, without the Word, nothing was made.

And in Him was life, so from Him came life. Now think of the ramifications of that. From Him came life. And the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it, did not realize, in fact, who it was or what it was. Now look over in verse 12. We've often again turned to this, but in verse 12, but it says, as many as received Him.

Here we know it's talking about Jesus. To Him, to them, He gave the right to become the children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of men, but of God. And the Word, here speaking again of the Word. And in the Greek, the Word here is for, is logos, as many of us remember. And so God's, His role, the role of the one who became Jesus was to be a spokesman, or you might say, you know, a communicator for God. And so the Word, that Word became flesh and dwelled among us, and we beheld His glory. John is looking back here to the time when even he and James, you know, were able to see Jesus Christ actually glorified before them.

Remember, they came down from the mountain? Christ said, see that you tell the vision, no man, no man, because they were able to see the one who was Jesus glorified. They beheld His glory, as John brings out, and the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. And so John's gospel claims here that Jesus is God, that Jesus is God.

There's no question about it. And he was the spokesman. And John also says very clearly that Jesus is the Creator, right? Jesus is the Creator. And it says that Jesus is the life, those three things. Now, it's important that we remember that. Everything that exists came into being because of Jesus Christ, the physical universe that is out here, that man can only begin to fathom.

You know, even a small bit. You know, it was created by Jesus Christ. Of course, it was created physical, subject to decay, and it was not, it's not always been around. You know, even our scientists understand that there was a time when the universe came into being. They called it the Big Bang.

I don't think God does things that way, personally. I don't think God, you know, explodes things and creates things that way. I look at the universe and it's quite orderly, you know, the way things are set up. You know, you think about even the way things are in terms of our own solar system.

You know, it's not chaos. It is order. You know, such that in fact you can, there are mathematical formulas to figure out certain things. You know, they can figure out, you know, where the, when the time of the, you know, the the solstices are. You know, they can figure out, in fact, the eclipse, when the exact time when the eclipse is going to occur mathematically because this physical universe, though it was created subject to decay, and we know that God maintains it, and it has been that way for probably 14, 15 billion years ago when it was created.

May have been before that, I mean created long before that. But, you know, it is amazing, this universe. But Jesus Christ brought it all into existence. And we know also that Jesus brought the angels into existence. So He existed before the angels existed, and the angels existed before the physical universe existed. Because in the book of Job, it says the stars of heaven shouted for joy at the creation of this physical universe.

That the angels were there already before the physical universe was there. And so Jesus Christ goes beyond the beginning of the physical universe and beyond the time of the angels being created because He created them. He existed before what we call time, in fact. I've heard Mr. Armstrong point out how that it's kind of hard to imagine that here you have two beings that existed. The one who we know as the Father, the one who is the Word, or Jesus Christ, who existed. And they were the two great lights of whatever the expanse was, previous to any physical universe. And they were there long before, you know, perhaps, you know, anything we can imagine was brought into being. How long did it take for them to plan, to think about how things were going to be done, how they were going to be created? Turn to Mica 5 in verses 1 through 2. This concept about who Jesus Christ was, by the way, is very much in the Old Testament as well as in the New. John talked about it, and Mica talked about it. But here in Mica chapter 1, chapter 5, and verse 1 through 2, it says, now gather yourself in troops, daughter of a troop, one sets a siege against us. You know, sometimes people do think, don't they, that, you know, that we're sort of down here on our own, that there is no God, and, you know, that it is kind of interesting. My wife and I were driving up 99 to come up here, and the traffic was just awful. And we sort of entertained yourself by the signs you see on the street, but on the road there on 99. And there was a stretch of highway. You know how some people adopt the part of a highway? And it was taken care of by some sort of a group called the atheists and free thinkers. Now, in other words, they were, I guess, they're trying to be good Samaritans, you know, and clean the highway. The only thing it was littered more than any other place. I guess when you're an atheist, you just don't care. And maybe that's, they had to give them the right to do that. But a lot of people have some strange ideas that God does not exist, and that we're sort of down here by ourselves. But notice it says, they shall strike the judge of Israel with a rod on the cheek. And you, Bethlehem, Ephrata, you being least among the thousands of Judah, Bethlehem, of course, the place where Jesus was born. Out of you, He shall come forth. The Messiah was going to come forth from the, from Bethlehem to become ruler in Israel. Now, who are we talking about here, brethren? Who are we talking about? Jesus Christ, right? The birth of the Christ here. And His, notice it says, Micah says, He who's going forth had been from of old, from the days of eternity. From eternity. That Jesus Christ has been around forever. The Messiah has been around forever. He was literally merely God with us. And so, Jesus, again, even the Old Testament has shown that He was an eternal being, having been around forever. Now, what claims did Jesus Christ say about Himself? What did He make about His own self? I won't go to some of these because you're familiar with them, but you want to write them down. John 1, verse 18. Jesus said this. Now, if we, if we go by what Jesus Christ says, and we should, of course, He said, No man has seen God at any time. And in the Greek, you look that up, it says, at no time. At no time has anybody ever seen God. Only Jesus who declared Him. The only one who has ever seen God is Jesus Christ. At no time did anybody else ever see any God the Father.

Anyway, Jesus taught, and John carefully recorded this for us, brethren. And we know that Jesus came proclaiming about the Father, the knowledge of the Father. And unless He had done that, we would not know there was even a Father. And the reason was, is because it was, in fact, Jesus Christ, that people knew the one who became Jesus Christ. The one who came and who was everlasting, or who was from the time, days of eternity, was the one that they were familiar with. They didn't know the Father and the greatness of the Father. You know, after the miracle feeding of the 5,000, let's sort of send John chapter 6 just over from where you are there.

John 6, in verse 32, we, of course, go through this during the Passover. But in verse 32, it says, Most assuredly I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven.

But my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. Well, who did give Moses the bread from heaven?

Well, I think, in reality, it was the one who became Jesus Christ.

But the Father gave the true bread, and the true bread, of course, was Jesus Christ, the one who came down from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. That through Jesus Christ, we would have the opportunity to have eternal life. Verse 38 on down here, for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. So here Christ is saying, I'm the bread of life. He's saying, I came down from heaven from my Father. Down in verse 41, and then the Jews complained about him, because they said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. See, they didn't have any question about what he was talking about here, about who he was. But, you know, they were upset by what he said, and they said, is not this Jesus? How can make these outlandish claims? This is Jesus, who is Joseph's boy. And we know him. And how is it he says he came down from heaven? Going on down here, let's notice verse 57. You know, Jesus Christ carries this to the very end. And it says in verse 57, and the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on me will live because, it says, of me.

This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as your fathers ate the manna, and our dad, he who eats this bread, will live forever. Because Christ, of course, is forever. He was sent from heaven. And if we eat of the true bread of life, we will have the opportunity to have eternal life. You know, in the temple, in fact, Jesus, when he was there at the feast at Tabernacles, he talked about who he was, and he called himself the Son of God.

And the tribes and the Pharisees knew what he was talking about.

Because they got upset by it. They wanted to kill him. They wanted to kill Christ. And, as you may remember, in fact, they would have. But the people, many of the people, believed, and even some of the religious leaders believed. And they knew if they took Christ, and they killed him, that they would have been in big trouble themselves during the course of all of this. They would have seized him at that very moment when he claimed to be the Son of God.

And yet, Jesus spoke of himself this way often, that he was the Son of God.

And you know that Paul himself said, he said that Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

That he was equal with God over in the book of Philippians. You know, we may or may not have time to go over there and read what he says, but that he was equal with God.

And the scribes and the Pharisees hated that. They hated that Christ spoke of himself that way.

Now, let's notice in chapter 6, in verse 46 here, verse 46, an interesting verse.

In chapter 6 and verse 46, I'm in 7. So let's go to chapter 6. But it says, he says, not that anyone has seen the Father. Now here he's saying absolutely nobody has seen the Father, except he who, it says, is from God. He has seen the Father. He said, most assuredly I say to you, he who believes in me has everlasting life and I am the bread of life. And so Jesus Christ again pointedly says, he alone has seen the Father. Now, interestingly, even so, though he says this, there were numerous times when, you know, God or the Lord, and it, you know, it's spelled L-O-R-D, as many of you remember, the, in the Old Testament when it's L-O-R-D in capital letters, that is Y-H-W-H. And very often, you know, people, when they see that word, they realize it's referring to, you know, God. It's referring to God. But who is it talking about? Who is it talking about?

It's certainly true in referring to the Father, you know, that the tetragrammaton, the Y-H-W-H, can refer to the Father and it can refer to Jesus Christ as well. But keep in mind that even the pagans used Y-H-W-H in reference to their gods. So keep that in mind, because you can, you go, I can show you in fact how that when the Samaritan, remember the up in Samaria when the Jeroboam broke, you know, ten of the tribes away, they still called their god YHWH. And we know they weren't worshiped the true gods. They were worshiping a false god, because those gods, remember, were brought in. They were brought in from Babylon and they intermingled it with their religion. So anyway, that's maybe a more technical thing. I don't want to get too technical on some of this, but, you know, we know that in the Bible, the Bible does mention a number of times where God appeared, you know, to His servants. I won't go to it, but in Genesis 17, verse 1, the Lord appeared to Abraham. Remember there where Abraham went and he fished a fatted calf and he prepared it and the Lord had come down to investigate what was happening in, you know, Sodom? That in actuality, we know that it was God that had come there. And it was there for them.

And so God appeared to Abraham. Who was that that appeared to Abraham? How about Isaac and Jacob?

Also, who did Israel? Who did Jacob wrestle with? He wrestled with God.

Remember, and at that time, his name was changed. Jacob's name was changed to Israel. And so that was a time when, again, we have, you know, God appearing and God appeared to Isaac as well. And God appeared to Moses. In Numbers 12, verse 8, we're told that he spoke to Moses face to face.

You know, God spoke to Moses also out of a burning bush. He spoke to him in a pillar of fire and a cloud of smoke. And we know even in the New Testament, I mentioned earlier about James and John. And Joseph seen, Joseph seen, Christ glorified, transfigured, remember, there.

And yet, the Bible says that no man can see God and live.

So how do you reconcile those things?

You know, what does it mean? Nobody can see God and live. You know, well, you know, Moses wanted to see God. The Bible says that God saw him face to face. How did he see him face to face?

Let's show one of the experiences here that Moses had. He insisted that God show himself to him, and God allowed Moses to see him in a small way. Let's go to Exodus 33 over here. Exodus 33.

Exodus 33.

And down to verse 17 over here. And it says, Then it came to pass when Pharaoh had let the people go. Am I in the right place? I think I am. No, I'm sorry. I don't know why I turned to Exodus 13.

Exodus 33. I know that didn't look right. Exodus 33 verse 17 here.

So the eternal said to Moses, again, here's your tetragrammaton again, I will also do this thing that you have spoken. You know, Moses had wanted to see God, for you have found grace in my sight. And I know you by name. He knew Moses at a very personal level. And he said, please show me your glory. He wanted to see the glory of God. Then he said, I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the eternal or the YHWH before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious.

And I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But he said, you cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live. So apparently you could not look at the face of God here in the glorified form and live. I don't know what would happen. You know, I assumed that we would just disintegrate. We would simply burn and descend at the brilliance of God.

And the eternal said, here is a place by me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while my glory passes by, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and will cover you with my hand while I pass by. Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back.

But my face shall not be seen. But remember, keep in mind, brethren, Christ said, no man has ever seen God. So who was this that Moses saw? Well, I think the answer is really quite obvious.

When we look at the Scriptures and what the Bible says, over in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, 1 Corinthians chapter 10, let's notice over here.

In 1 Corinthians chapter 10, Paul mentions about this, who dealt with ancient Israel. Well, I guess I need to make my notes into a little airplane, and the wind will catch it, and I'll never find them, huh? But in 1 Corinthians chapter 10 and verse 4, speaking again of ancient Israel, it says, Now let's go back and look at another interesting concept about Jesus. You know, Jesus, when he spoke about God the Father, he used two Greek words.

One was ganasko, spelled G-I-N-O-S-K-O, and the word ganasko means knowing that which is a result of discernment and which may be enlarged. It's like I've known the Bates for many years, and I've seen them over the years. They've been faithful, you know, through those years, and in that level, I would say they're very faithful people, very faithful people of God, as many others are, you know, in the church. I know the Trones are a big part of the sacramental church. They're very faithful through all the trials and the difficulties.

Well, think about this, that the one who became Jesus Christ had been with the Father through so many experiences. He was there, of course, with the Father, dealing with all of the things coming up, in fact, the very creation of human beings. He was there at the creation of the angels, and so he knew God, and he knew his Father, and that knowledge increased and was enlarged on that level, again, based on that Greek word that he used.

And then there's another word that is used as well for knowing an individual. You know, Christ said, I know God. He used the Greek word ido, which means it implies absolute knowledge, absolute knowledge. So, like I mentioned, I've known the Bates for many years. Considering their track record, you know, and what they have done and what others have done in the church through the years, I would assume they're going to remain faithful until the end.

But do we absolutely know that about anybody in reality? I mean, how many people have you known in the church that you thought they'd absolutely be here today in the church after 40, 50, 60 years? Well, there have been those that I thought were just absolutely faithful to the core that would die for the truth. You know, when 1995 took place, they went the other way.

You see, I didn't really know them absolutely.

But Jesus Christ knows God the Father absolutely, so much so that He said, when you see me, you see the Father. And remember, there in Hebrews, where it talks about how that He is the Greek word character in the Greek form of that word means the stamped image, that Jesus Christ was the stamped image of the Father, that He knew the Father absolutely. And so when Jesus, brethren, talked about Himself with the scribes of the Pharisees, He used these two words, these two Greek words to describe His relationship with God or God the Father.

And we know that one of the great jobs that Jesus Christ had, besides being our great sacrifice, brethren, is He came to reveal to us the Father. We see that in John 17. You know, in that final prayer He prays before He's arrested, you know, on Passover night.

And He offers us, brethren, through what He says about the Father, the complete revelation about God. That God, in fact, you know, is not just one being, that God right now is two beings. He's not three beings, not a trinity, but He is two beings. That God the Father and Jesus Christ indeed are one, but they're two separate entities. They're one, of course, because they believe and they are the same in terms of their character. So what are the implications of what Jesus Christ said, in fact, to the scribes in the Faroei season, what we've read about Him?

Well, the implication is this, brethren. Number one, to reject Jesus Christ, who is the only one that can give us the full revelation of God, is to reject God.

If we reject Jesus, we reject God.

Would you agree with that, brethren? If we reject Jesus Christ, we reject the Father as well? Okay. So this is what Jesus Christ is telling us. And to reject Jesus as God is to reject the Father as God. Those are the implications of what Jesus Christ would say.

One of the things, again, I said earlier that really irritated the Jews is Christ saying He was equal with God, saying He was the Son of God. They tried to kill Him. In fact, they viewed Him as a blasphemer. So they knew what He was talking about. They knew what He was talking about.

And as I said earlier in Philippians, Paul said that Jesus was in the form of God, and He thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But He made Himself of no reputation, and He took upon Him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. And we know He emptied Himself of His godship, as it were, and He became a man, though He was fully human and He was fully God. He did not avail Himself of the power that He had before. Fully, at least. You know, He did not summon a legion of angels, as He could have at any moment or a time. He could have done that during those times, but He suffered for us because He was a manual. He was God with us, or God in the flesh. Let's look at another thing over here in Exodus chapter 3. Exodus chapter 3 over here.

Exodus 3 and verse 13. Remember when Moses being called, and Moses didn't want to be called, which is something that I think probably happens to all of us if God calls us to do something, we generally try to make an excuse for not doing it. Somehow we think God is not able to enable us to do it, whatever it is.

Moses thought he was not very good at giving speeches. I mean, who among us is capable, you know, to do any of the things that we have to do? I think I've told this to people before, when I came into the church, I came in the church around, it was probably in 67 beginning to attend, but when I looked at the minister and somehow I knew who the minister was. I don't remember exactly why I knew he was, but he was the man that was dressed in the suit, you know, with a nice tie and so forth. And I remember in my mind saying, I never want to ever be one of those.

And you know, when I said that, God wrote it down in the book, and he said, well, we'll find out about that. If you ever don't want to do something, never say that, because you'll end up doing it.

And as it turned out, that's what happened with me. I was graduating from ambassador. I was thinking I was going to go into the business world, business community. One of my majors was in business. Well, it was a major, it was a minor in business. So that was what I was going to do.

And I didn't find out I was going into the field ministry, and we had a, what they called forum at Ambassador College. And back in those days, they didn't ask you if you wanted to go in the field. I don't know if they ask you about that. But I think it was Ron Kelly wrote up, he got up to the lectern, and he said he wrote, read off a list of names of people who were going into the field, as we called it, you know, the, you go into the field. And there were like 14 fellows names who were mentioned, and I was among them. And they were going to send me to Tulsa and Oklahoma City, which made me happy. I was happy to think about going, you know, to Oklahoma. That's where my family is. And I was in the graduation line, and Ron Kelly comes up to me, he was the dean of students at the time, and he said, Jim, you're not going to Oklahoma anymore. I said, what?

He says, you're going to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And I said, where is that? I had no idea where Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. So I was transferred before I ever was sent into the field, and I always thought that was funny, you know, that they were already transferring me right in the graduation line. I guess they were counting the fact I'd make it through the graduation. But anyway, I didn't want to do the job that I ended up doing and have been doing since 1974.

Most don't. I don't think I've ever met a pastor that said, this is what I would have liked to have done in my life or was going to do in my life. Very few I have ever met that have thought, well, I was born for this. Usually when people think they're born for something, you know, they're probably not. You know, they're probably not. It's like the guy who saw the vision of the PC in the cloud, you know. And he thought it meant, preach Christ.

And it was revealed that, no, it meant plow corn instead.

But let's go to Exodus 3, verse 13. And it says, then Moses said to God, indeed, when I come, it says to the children of Israel, and say to them, the God of your fathers have sent me to you, and they shall say, who is his name? What shall I say to them? I like the way God here thinks about this. Sounds almost like John Wayne. And God said to Moses, I am who I am.

And he says, thus you shall say to the children of Israel, you tell them I am sent you.

I am sent you. And so God's name is I am. I am that I am. And this was a very important thing for Israel, all through the ages up until the time that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came along.

And when Jesus Christ came along, he often referred to himself as I am.

There are like seven times in the New Testament where Jesus refers to himself as I am. You can look at in John 8, in verse 56 through 59, I'm not going to go through all of them. You all remember, of course, his disciples, what he told them. He says, I am the way. I am the way, the truth, and the life. And I think one of the most striking times when Jesus referred to himself as I am is when he was arrested.

And the Bible talks about in John 18, in verses 3 through 6, over there, it says, thus Judas, having received a band and officers of the chief priest of the Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons. And then Jesus, knowing all things that were coming upon him, went out and said to them, whom do you seek? And they answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. And Jesus said to them, I am, I am. And Judas, who betrayed him, also stood with them. So here was Judas and this whole entourage. And then as soon as he said to them, I am, they went backward and fell to the ground. They knew what this meant. You tell them I am, sent you. And when they asked who it was, it was I am, none other than God.

They were standing before them and they fell backward.

So, brethren, Jesus claimed he came from God. He claimed he alone had seen God. He claimed he knew God. He came to reveal God the Father. He claimed he was equal with God. We can show, brethren, from the book of Genesis when Adam was created to the very end. It has been Jesus Christ who has dealt with and worked with human beings. Remember when even Joshua was confronted by, you know, the general with a sword, that was in fact Jesus Christ because he bowed before him because it was God. It was God that was there dealing with man. And all likelihood, of course, Melchizedek was the one who became Jesus Christ. We know Jesus Christ is a priest in the order of Melchizedek forever, as the Bible says. So, there's so many, many areas that we could talk about. Let's go over here to 1 Corinthians chapter 15. 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

What does Jesus Christ call Himself?

You know, in the book of Revelation, He's called the Alpha. He's called the Omega.

You might say, He started this saying, and He's going to finish it. He's going to finish it.

But what will He do with it when He's done with it? When it's finished, when it's accomplished? So, through the 6,000 years, and by this time, the 7,000 years have passed, and who knows how long the Great White Throne judgment period is going to be, that it will be Jesus Christ who will be working with us. Very shortly, we're going to go off to the feast, and we're going to observe the Feast of Tabernacles. And we're going to be there to celebrate the millennium and who will rule throughout the entire 1,000-year period, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who is Jesus Christ. And so, Jesus Christ, again, is in every respect the one that man has, in fact, who has dealt with man from the very beginning.

In 1 Corinthians 15 and verse 22, let's notice here, it says, For as an Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Only through him could we, in fact, be made alive. And so it says, But each one in his own order. We know there are different resurrections. Christ the first fruits, and afterwards those were Christ and his coming.

But then it says, Then comes the end. Now, there's going to come an end to the plan of God.

When he, when Christ, delivers the kingdom to God the Father.

When he puts an end to all rule and all authority and power, for he must reign till he has put all enemies under his feet.

And the last enemy that will be destroyed, thankfully, is death.

So everything is going to be subjected to Jesus Christ, and then he's going to yield it up to the Father. And so the only one that has really dealt with mankind, you know, in the creation from the beginning, you know, the one that is dealt with human beings, particularly, has been Jesus Christ. The Father, we know, is the one that draws us to the church. That's certainly true, but it is Jesus Christ that we have seen. It is Jesus Christ we have dealt with. And in the end, he's going to yield it up to the Father in heaven. So the answer is that Jesus is God.

He's the God that most have known, and most haven't known, frankly, the Father. Thankfully, in the church, we do know not only who the Father is, but we know who Jesus Christ is.

I think C.S. Lewis sort of put it this way. Now, we either have to accept what the Bible reveals, or we conclude that Jesus Christ was either a liar or he was a lunatic.

Would you agree? I mean, either you accept what this book says, and if we don't, if we think that it's not true, then we, of course, why are we here? We either accept everything he claimed to be, the fullest revelation of God, made known to man, and the only way to God, or we reject him. That Jesus, indeed, is God, preexisted, and now is at the right hand of the Father in heaven. So Jesus Christ is the one, brethren, that you read about in the Old and New Testament. Jesus Christ was the one who dealt with man in the Old Testament, and he's the one that came as the Messiah.

So if you hear of anyone that comes along trying to say that, you know, the Old Testament's talking about the Father, at least remember those things that the Church has taught. What I've talked to you about today is not new revelation at all, but it's what we've taught. And I've tried to, as a minister, always teach what the Church has taught. And if, you know, perchance we see something different, God reveals it to us. And I know that you feel the same way, that if God reveals it to the Church, then so be it. But this is what we believe is God's people. Well, I appreciate the opportunity to be here and to have had the chance to speak to you about this.

And hopefully it'll come up next time. It'll be cooler. It'd be nice to bring up some cool weather, but, you know, appreciate the opportunity to be able to come up and speak to you.